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| Interesting points Hansie, bit rugby is played across the country. Problem is it's pretty well exclusive to private schools outside of NSW & QLD. The fact is you need to use what you have to get it going first. There's no point introducing rugby to schools where there's no desire to play. Having a national comp (below the international provincial level) will cost ARU a lot of money with little return in the first 5-10 years. Yep, it could take up to half a generation to get it going. But that's the acid test - who ha the political balls to spend the money with no shet term financial gain? |
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| I haven't read all the posts but here is my take on the situation. The reason why you dont have a national comp is because Australia is run like 7 countries each state has its own radio shows/tv shows/news paper/sporting interests!!! I believe this is where the change needs to happen! There is no unity in the whole of Australia!!! Thats the first problem. If every state watched as much rugby as they do in NSW then there would be a greater awareness and you would have more kids come through wanting to play rugby. I watched NFL yesterday what the hell!!! Why have that on TV and not a replay of rugby or a show educating people on rugby showing them great Aussie games and in that creating a unity in sport that is played by Australia!!! South Australia for example do not follow rugby! The Australian rugby team is not a national team!!! You dont have people playing it every where!!! Sort this out and you might see people keen to play and get involved so that eventually you have quality coming through and from there national comp can be setup!!! | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Union sure is losing out big time to Aussie Rules and League there's no doubt about it. There's going to have to be new blood in admin before there's any chance of anything changing though and the current head in the sand crew that are there are not going to go easily and by the time they do the horse may have already bolted. Interestingly the Soccer comp only got 2,500 to the game on the Gold Coast this weekend so both Union and Soccer have their work cut out for themselves. |
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| totally agree panther ! | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| besides the shute sheild...where else do you go to get recognised? what i'd like to see is some god gifted talented children to get a chance. No matter what school you went to or whether you played gps or (chs??) start scouting, start building academies on merit, no who you know or what private school you went to. Start a new national school competition so some kid from penrith...or darwin can get looked at possibly make the Australian school boys...we need to expand the horizen boys...open the doors to the less priveleged...so our game can be recognised and the "ëverymans game"...not just for doctors and lawyers.... Bring rugby union to the poor man...because the poor man ain't got the dollars to make it all the way to the city... |
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| NZ are still belting it out in their domestic comp. Wellington and Canterbury in the final I think. What are our players doing ?? Oh that's right they haven't played for weeks and are all on holiday ! That needs to change |
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| Sprout, the ref was pretty good in Tokyo. Definitely not as technical as usual, although Wife Basher shoulda been red carded as it was blatantly dangeros and he's a repeat offender. That said, Lawrence was overly hard on Kiwis on severla occasions. If you want to see a game where ref had a ridiculous influence, watch Currie Cup final. Kaplan was his usual idiotic officious self making some pathetic, game turning decsions. Notwithstanding this, the quality of that match was outstanding. And once again, match fitness saw tremendous effort for the full 80 from both sides. |
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| Grist, you were doing reall. Well until the last sentence of your post mate: the 'bully biys' of SANZAR are Andy Marinos and his cronies. The fact that they even entertain a 6th province and want to use a racial political agenda to push it thru says it all. Other than that I agree with you. Ado, you have it soooo wrong mate. Australia is inconsistent. Rugby is the 4th code because there is a gaping void between club and international comp. Our schoolboys were sensational again this year, but outside the Shute Shueld, where can they develop here? If the union was properly structured, League would be struggling because talent such as Ingliss, Folau, Smith, Thurston and the world's best League player - Billy Slater (and coming from New South Welshman, that's hard to say!) would have to attraction of a strong local comp to draft them. No, you're usually right Ado, but on this you are off the planet mate. |
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| did'nt the Aussies come up with most of the new elv's? No they want to change it again??? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| I agree with you Zedds on a whole heap fo things. And you too Sprou. But lets not forget that Union is the fourth code of winter football in this country, not the first unlike NZ and SA. Not that that should be an excuse, but it makes it harder to get share of voice and wallet. We have for many years (well since the 77' schoolboys) punched above our weight. And there is an expectation in Oz for us to keep doing so. I watched the Nz schools Vs our Schools the otehr week and it was good footy with the K1's just geting home (unlike 2007 & 8) I think we have the talent, but there is too much focus on the one off players like Oconnor and beale. Need to bring these guys on En Masse. One Oz schoolboys lock is signed up for the Force. Our academys need to get hold of the top 5 or 6 guys and take them forward. We're not relying on imports either Zedds. We've had Topo, Willie O and Noriega as imports and perhaps a few k1 juniors, but thats it. We have the coin, the facilities and the resource. What we lack is the vision, commitment and the willingness of all stakeholders at S14 level to make it happen. Vote 1. Ado for ARU president immedaitely. I will fix this very quickly I assure you. (SPELLING ERRORS ASIDE) |
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| The ref had no influence on the outcome yesterday, Australia were outplayed simple as that. Yes the game is getting a bit monotonous, I think that we play Australia far to many times each year and it takes the anticpation of. Three times would be plenty. |
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| I don't know if anyone else is thinking it but the game is boring the shyte out of me at the moment. The ref has miles to much influence on the game and his interpretation has way to much influence on the outcome/result. I don't know what rules can be tweaked but it needs to be simplified. The ruck is a shambles and needs to be sorted quick smart |
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| Ado, In the entire history of the Bledisloe for example you have had only 1 purple patch between 98 and 2002, the other wins were only one doulbe and then 1 offs every so often infact not often at all. 12 times only have you won it compared to 37 times, your best period was at the beginning of the professional erra where Oz had the advantage of a experience. No doubt Oz can put it together when all the moons are aligned but really if you think having a domestic comp will not change the state of play you are the one that is being naive. The reason we are so succesful in Super 14 is because of our NPC tounament, just look at the finalists this year Wellington v Canterbury..... our very best Super 14 team and probably in recent years our second best in Wellington. It's not just your lack of domestic comp it is also not having Australia A. No offense but you seem fixated with super 15 and foreign players which is detrimental to your grass roots. I think Australia should be looking within to find there players and that needs to start with a viable competition feeding the Super 15 teams. I know there is a financial issue before you say it but to toataly disregard it is to stay where you are and that is always punching above your weight but never dominating. |
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| I've said this on these boards 100 times and I still think I'm right. ARC was a convoluted and ad hok comp made up of teams with no traditions at all.Rugby is parochial and needs to reflect that. Australia need to prolong the domestic season by playing the top finishing sides in their respective comps in Syd,Melb,Perth and Brisbane into a club championship. Say the top 2 finishing sides compete for the top club side in Oz. I.m aware that S14 is to be lengthened in the future but it could be played by the rest of the 2nd tear players. When you watch NPC being battled out with all their top players involved where as our guys are in some 3 week camp. It shows on the field ! |
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| Load of garbage. We didn't have a national comp in 84 when we won the grnad slam,. We didn't have one when we won the Bledisloe for the first time in 50 years on NZ soil. We didn't have one when we won the world cup under Dwyer nor under McQueen. There arew some fundamentals amiss, but to blame the current performances on the lack of depth due to the fact there is no domestic comp is plain wrong. I'd love to see a national comp again, but to assumes its going to change the state of play is pretty naive, The Currie Cup and the NPC have decades of tradtional rivalry behind them to create very watchable and intense product. Chucking some guys together and giving them a name ain't going to turn it into the big hit everyone wants. There are a few unreal possibilities I'd like to see happen. At the top of the list is to create unified league and union clubs like they have in the UK. Give some real resource and professionalism to an amped up union club scene (including player swapping) and we will lift the depth in no time. The other thing the Super sides need ot do is broaden their player groups and give depth to their academy structures. Right now elite footy is limited to the very few. Also I want import rules relaxed at all levels. That is one of hte fastest ways to inject depth. If your can raise the standard with imports players will lift accordingly. I also think last night was another example of a forward pack who played half the game on the front foot and got belted in the second, As chopper would say...Harden the f up! |
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| summation..Australia do not have the depth they need. So maybe we have to start thowing money into club rugby..Start the competition later so that all S14 & accademy players can be involved towards the end of the season. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| and the private investment will have to be drafted really carefully,with rules laid down by some wise men so you avoid the situation from Europe when the national team cannot have players released by their clubs.... until then... GO THE WALLABIES... |
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| in the current Australian sporting landscape a domestic competition is just not possible Gale...at least not until private ownership or private equity or whatever they want to call it is introduced in Australian rugby on a full scale. a domestic competition to develop players but to serve the Wallabies as well means a competition where the Wallaby players will be fully involved...that would mean a complete renegociation of the agreement with RUPA...which limits the no of games that any professional rugby player in Australia can play every year.and RUPA is not the most flexible org *** ation there is... insurance costs will go through the roof...player payments will increase,travel costs,etc,etc... then you have the tv broadcasting rights that are needed for funding...in Australia the free to air networks and Foxtel already throw huge amounts of cash to have broadcast rights to NRL,AFL and soccer..they will not have too much for a domestic rugby comopetition,if they will have anything at all... in NZ and South Africa they do not have so many popular sporting codes,much easier to get some really good broadcasting deal. then is the crowd problem...2-3,000 people per game will just not do it money wise...they will need at least 10,000 people per game to actually have a decent revenue and i don't see that happening at least at the moment. the point is that the ARU simply cannot afford a domestic competition at the moment,and the fact that they have full control of rugby and rugby finances in this country does not help. their biggest mistake was not establishing a domestic competition in 2003 when rugby was really popular following the World Cup and they had planty of cash to throw around.but they thought they can get away without one and they waited until a World Cup year to launch the ARC. until some private entities are not allowed to invest heavily in rugby in this country....club rugby will be the only domestic competition i am affraid... |
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| Yes it is a no-brainer. Australia needs a domestic competition if it plans to remain a force in world rugby. Trying to make a domestic competition from Super rugby by bringing in the conference structure will not solve the problem, because there will still be no breeding ground to feed players into top competition. Australia got away with it for a long time, simply because they had a jump start when the game turned professional by being able to use professional expertise from the NRL that has been buildt up over decades. This included video analysis, fitness trainers, etc. South Africa had no professional codes when Super rugby started and it took them a decade to build up from scratch the stuctures necessary to succeed in professional rugby. But they did catch up and will leave Australia in their dust, because they also have a thriving domestic competition. Instead of acting like the bully boy in SANZAR, Australia should ask South Africa and New Zealand for help to develop a domestic competition. It is vital for the Southern Hemisphere to have a domestic competition in Australia. Otherwise Australia will continue to play the role of road kill as the major teams steam past to victory and glory. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| I'd like to throw a rock at the ARU headquaters everytime someone mentions that we need a doestic comp. How about starting with a three team comp for Wallaby tour selection?..Qld, NSW and combined states....similar to the state of origin concept.. after ...six rounds of rugby...winner takes all..Great Sunday afternoon Rugby..and at smaller grounds like North Sydney Oval...etc ...etc...so we don't have to pay a million bucks to watch a game!! I reckon we should start that afer the Super14 competition so we can start blooding the young ones!! | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Never once seem anyone 'scoff' at it Z. Anyhow, just saw an amazing Currie Cup final between Bulls & Cheetaa. What a fantastic match: great skills, awesome defence, amazing pace of the game. I'm even more jealous now!!! |
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| This has been pointed out a 1000 times to some of the regulars here and is usually met with a scoff. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| An amazing thing happened in Tokyo tonight. AB, who 'looked' the better team most of the night and won the match, actually perfomed statistically worse than the Wallabies by almost every measure. The only discernable 'win' NZ had was lineouts. Yep, the Wallabies even won turnovers! Pok0k & Elsom did well at the breakdown as did all the forwards, which they also won appreciably. So why did the Wallabies lose? People are saying they were flat, bored, disinterested, disorg *** ed etc. Yeah, the backline was definitely affected by Barnes ommission and lineout dodgy without Sharpe. But in real terms, that's not a good enough excuse. AB have walloped us with at times 'ordinary' (by NZ standards) personnel this year. And they have suffered similar injury problems and settling with combinations. No, Australia's problem is far deeper. And the Wallabies players are being unfairly blamed. Our lack of a national competition is slowly killing our competitiveness in an environment where players are getting fitter, faster and stronger. Fitness is one thing, conditioning another. I believe the Wallabies are as fit as anyone. But they flag in top flight games because of a lack of match fitness: condition. In the last month, the Kiwis have enjoyed top notch domestic rugby whilst our boys have been playing tag at training. You cannot emulate match conditions. Whilst Australia continues to be devoid of a national competition, we will bleed slowly into oblivion, finding it more and more difficult to keep up with NZ, SA and possibly a host of other emerging teams who enjoy a home comp. That said, the optimist would say we punch well above our weight all things considered. And there were significant improvements in the Wallabies game tonight - notably the breakdown and scrum. All is not lost and I actually believe the European tour can be won. But continued lack of a local comp will see a painful, drawn out demise of Australian Rugby. |
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