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| Yeah Jimmy,not much to cheer about lately. Except for the Brisbane test. The annoying is how well they seem to play at home(at times) and how poorly they play OS. Oh well. keep the faith and here's hoping for a good NH tour |
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| Gale/Sprout: I read Rugby Heaven every day, including whatever Growden has to write, but I'm with Gale on this one - he's a loungechair champion! Whingesm whines, moans... much prefer Spiro's commentary. More balanced, level-headed. Growden is overly critical and too strongly opinionated, and thinks everything he says is law Full of himself. Anyway, not much to cheer about in Australian rugby right now (well at least for me - haven't been watching any club footy)... Growden and Wallabies both suck ass, as much as each other. Jimbo. |
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| Not sure if it's true, but apparently they've discovered the cause of this week's bad dust storms that blanketed half the country. Some silly bugger opened the Wallaby's trophy cabinet! | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Sprout, re Growden, I respect your opinion, with the caveat that you area NSW man, and he is more one-eyed than any journo I can recall. Cheers |
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| 4.Motivation for the opposition | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Gale, I agree with all of that except about Growden. I enjoy his article's normally and can't really find that much fault in his views. Spiros has to take the gong this week for his article "Lambs to the slaughter" or whatever it was called it was 1.surprising. 2.Stupid. 3.Ill informed. I've seen better essays written here on these boards than that load of Shyte |
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| Well pointed Gale. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Gale, This is how I see it too. Why should the contract/working world be any different because you are an athlete. As an athlete you are being paid for your skills. No more and no less. Blessings Mel |
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| The 'facts' appear quite straightforward to me:- 1. ARU/NSWRU revenues & player payments are mutually exclusive - not one and the same. Just because a Union generates $$$ for an even should not automatically entitle players to a share. If the business you work for secures a new contract, do you demand an automatic payrise or additional $$$ for working on the job? Of course not! Bu by working on it you may get extra bonus if I. Is a success and contributes to profit. 2. RUPA is the 'tail wagging the dog'. It seems we are back in the bad old 70s where the Painters & Dockers ruled the waterfront. Or the building unions decided who would work on which site, when and for how much. ARU is the administration, it should have the power to set a base amount for each player each year ( you know, like a 'salary'!) and then performance on top. With Probables match, base contract should cover appearance. Performance bonus is getting selected in Wallabies squad, where you have honour of representing your country and earning more in win bonuses. 3. ARU has lost control of it's senior players. Standard fee per match regardless of performance is clear evidence of this. If O'Neil. Is that tough, he needs to tear up that rubbish and kick RUPA in the ass, telling them to stick to their knitting! 4. Growden is amongst the top echelon of sporting journo tosspots on the planet. |
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| Im not so sure about paid incentives. In a team you need to build a culture, build a united front of guys that will put there body on the line for each other not just themselves. If you were playing the best you've ever played and regarded one of the best in the world, why should you take a hit when a couple guys around you cant catch a ball. It would lead to players blaming teammates for loses, not the spirit you would want to breed in a team. Bish |
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| Mark, You make a fair point. The article was misleading to say the least. However, a fair point is made on the other side of the fence. There is a thin line between a well paid professional and a mercenary. RUPA did make the players look a bit "mercenary" in wanting a payment if someone else was going to make money. In other words, "if someone is going to make money then so should I." The truth is, they would have made money anyway as they are all under contract and receive a base salary. The extra money is meant to be an incentive. Incentives should be paid on performance. In most other businesses incentives or bonuses are performance driven. How about this then: 1. If they win a test match they get the $15,000 2. If they loose they get $7500 (still a lot of coin for a test match) 3. If they draw they get $10,000 In this form, they are extremely motivated to win. Do the math... would you much rather receive 15k or 7.5k? Now we are talking about incentives to get a "jersey" and an incentive to win. If they want to be in the professional era they have to act and PLAY like professionals. They should be rewarded accordingly. Blessings Mel |
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| tsprouster: > Not sure of what u meant in your post. just that, as with NBA basketball, or EPL/La Liga etc, rugby union professionals become jaded and think that their salaries/payments are a reflection of their worth. [Not to pile on unnecessarily, but Lote's contract come sto mind.] That the point of the game is to be paid. We are saying the same thing, I believe. And it is,in my opinion, a consequence of professionalism per se. Or at least, empirically it is the case that a significant number of professional athletes (name your sport) begin to behave as if they are bigger than the game. In which they are encouraged by the too-uncritical adulation of supporters and general attitudes in society that knows the price of everything, but the value of very little. Of course, I'm a grumpy old man, subject, as are all grumpy old men, to the sense that "the older we get the better we were." (When I first heard it decades ago, I was too young and inexperienced to appreciate the ironic mode.) Mark L |
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| And you wonder why we think Greg Growden AKA jabbatheHutt is a complete tosser. OK the situation the Wallabies find themselves in is pretty bad PR wise but good old Jabba throws in an article stating the facts that only serve his purpose and conveniently leaves out items that lesson the blow. The result is getting his boot in while they are down, a good Aussie bloke that one. Him and Spiro must be one upping each other for journalism that's incites a response based on there one eyed observations rather than reporting the facts. Anyway, it's a shame this game wont go ahead for the public and for the Wal. It seems there is a clear case of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing. It seems that RUPA and the ARU are bigger enemies than the SANZAR members. It is fracturing the Rugby at that level in Australia and perhaps all the sh!t is running downhill and landing on the playing field. It goes back to ditching Aus A which I and a few others have brought up many times as a serious issue and have been laughed at by the John O'Neil fan club. He sacrificed Aus rugby for a positive bank statement. To me RUPA and the ARU need to find some common ground and work together for the greater good of Aus rugby. This may require removing the two heads and replacing them with two that will actually negotiate without the baggage. Meanwhile the Wal have five weeks to sit around and stew over the last win and the latest media debacle, who knows they might even be up for a fight in Japan. If one week is a long time in rugby then six weeks is a lifetime. |
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| Mark, Not sure of what u meant in your post. Yeah they are professional players and expect to be paid for their efforts. They are paid exstremly well.No problems there. However, I think what most supporters are venting is their annoyance at our team for some weak performances and then to be haggling over money when a game could have been played to give some fringe players the chance to live their dream, just seemed weak and petty. I guess the players felt if NSWRU was making money outa the game so should they.Fair call I spose but after coming last in the Tri-nations I guess some people were hoping that the players concerned could have put their pay packet aside for the better good. The analogy about playing for pride in the guernsey and not only money was, although old fashioned, should be the integral part of the inspiration of playing for your nation. |
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| one more thing they forgot to say also tsprouster...the "pay cut" applies only for this year,next year they will get their 15,000 or whatever. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| "In addition to assist Australian Rugby with the downturn in the general economy Wallaby players agreed earlier this year to take a Test match pay cut." I'm pretty sure it wasn't a pay cut.They were going to get $15,000 more per game as kind of a raise and instead left it at 11,500. The way it's put isn't quite right. This issue will only reinforce the incentive style payments for players in tests.If they know that losing will hit their hip pocket they might just put in that bit extra. |
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| It's part of the price of professionalism, isn't it? Sure we like the bigger-stronger-faster professional players. While our mob is winning. But when they act like a closed shop syndicate, we are totally horrified. Of course, *we* all would line up for 24 hours for a <0.1% chance at an AUS jumper, but we are not professional ruggers (and - let's get real here - we never were; which is perfectly okay: we have real lives, better suited, really, to our praticular gifts). But, except in our fevered imaginations, when you tell people that their livelihood is professional rugby, you had better expect a RUPA in conflict with "management" (ARU). Why would it be thus for longshoremen, but not professional rugby players? You want the commitment of men who grew up under th old system - John Eales or Sean Fitzpatrick? Sorry, the world has moved on. For better or worse? Doesn't matter, mates. It has moved on, and isn't going back. We have big, high-horsepower motorcars to buy, and they costs a ton of money. So you yobs can dream about a world in which you'd give up a month or six weeks to wear the green and gold andcount it the best month of your life. But we have mortagages in Balmain and school tuitions to pay. And, of course, you'll lose 100+ to nil and not be able to raise your arms above your shoulders for two weeks. "Be careful what you wish for - when the Gods want to punish you,they answer your prayers." (Isak Dinesen). Mark L |
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| Froggy....i don't think it matters much the ARU version....in the RUPA version is stated clearly that in the moment they felt that the game will generate revenue they decided that the players should be entitled to a fee... in other words...hold on..if the NSWRU or ARU or NASA or somebody will make money from this game...we wanna make a quick buck as well...which brings the point that most of the guys wrote about on this forum...where the hell is the pride of playing for your country...just playing for the pride and honor of representing your country in a Grand Slam tour... they should just forget about any money at the moment and just try to play to restore some pride in the Wallaby jersey after how disgraceful most of them represented that jersey in this year's Tri Nations. |
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| While I don't necessarily dispute the facts as just put by sparepart, these are clearly the facts as presented by one side of the case, and a side with a very strong vested interest. I am also well aware, as would be most posters on these boards, of the difficult relationship that exists between the RUPA and the ARU, and the particularly acrimonious relationship between messres Dempsey and O'Neill. I would be very keen to hear the ARU version of this story. Froggy |
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| representing their country and take great pride in representing their country. What is needed now in Australian rugby is a galvanizing of support for the Wallabies as they prepare for the November tour â not misinformed ill advised rhetoric about the attitude of players to money.â Message Ends. For Further Information contact: Glenys Smith PA to the Chief Executive Officer The Rugby Union Playersâ Association Inc |
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| time and money when it comes to supporting charitable causes. Examples this year include donation of their first round Super match fees to the Victorian Bushfire Appeal and participation and support of numerous charities including but not limited to Cystic Fibrosis Australia, Starlight Foundation â various appearances, Blue September, Arthritis Australia â kids camps, Mission Australia â various programs, The Smith Family â various programs, The eMerge Foundation, Ovarian Cancer Australia, RSPCA, Cook Islands donation of books, Ronald McDonald House â various appearances, Xtrata Charity Rugby Day, Camp Quality â various, ActewAGL Country Visits, Red Cross Blood Donation, Cerebal Palsy, Breast Cancer â various, Movember, Pyjama Foundation, Red Kite, St Vincent de Paul â Youthreach/Matt Talbot, Retina Australia Foundation, Itâs Time Foundation, Patch (Canberra Hospital), Red Frogs, The Why Genera tion, POW Sydney Hospital, Humpty Dumpty Foundation, This is Oz run by Acan â anti discrimination, Eightytwenty Vision, Wallabies Rewards program â Values in Sport Forum & Junior clubs, National Aboriginal Sports Corporate Australia (NASCA), Prostate Cancer Foundation of Australia, Rugby CONNECT â womens rugby, disabled, indigenous and Culturally & Linguistically Diverse populations. The players also spend numerous hours volunteering their time to help out at grass roots rugby functions and events. In addition to assist Australian Rugby with the downturn in the general economy Wallaby players agreed earlier this year to take a Test match pay cut. Further, players from the Waratahs and Reds (including Wallabies from these two states) have agreed to forgo one weekâs leave without pay. It is not the first time and dare we say the last that during a Wallaby form slump that it is suggested the players are either overpaid or money hungry. The reality is players are just as committed as ever in representing their country and take great pride in represent ... |
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| Australia A type match â $2,500. If on the other hand the purpose of the match was solely to be used in preparation for the All Blacks match and for fringe selection purposes then the Wallabies would of course be happy to play the game at a local suburban park without request for a match fee; 8. In August 2009 the ARU responded to the RUPA suggestion by advising the game was not now proceeding in the format proposed but instead that the playersâ preparation for the end of season tour would be altered to prepare them for the Tour in a different way; 9. The NSWRU has reimbursed its members for the Australia A game cancelled by the ARU last December. The Sydney Morning Heraldâs article is factually incorrect in a number of ways: 1. The match under discussion wasnât simply about playing a trial â but about providing a substitute match for the NSWRU after the ARU cancelled their Australia A game last December; 2. The RUPA didnât demand a payment of $2,500 but suggested a fee of $2,500 in response to a question by the ARU as to whether the players expected a fee; 3. After suggesting the fee the ARU decided to $cr@p the game without further discussion; 4. The ARU did not in recent days cancel the proposed Wallaby V Australian Barbarian match. It was called off in August; 5. The only venue proposed by the ARU to the RUPA was the SFS â not North Sydney Oval. Tony Dempsey Chief Executive Officer of the RUPA said: âIt is easy for someone to suggest there are cracks within the player framework. Worse still it is easy to infer the players are money focused. A more challenging, difficult and yet constructive task is to provide positive solutions to the Wallabies recent lack of form against the All Blacks. It is not clear what source the SHM relies upon when writing an article of this nature. Equally puzzling is why clarity was not sought about the issue from the RUPA before publishing it. The Wallaby playersâ themselves are generous both with their ... |
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| The RUPA response to âWallabies sink tour trial for $2,500â³ SMH Article: The RUPA responds to the inaccurate nature of the article published today by the Sydney Morning Herald entitled âWallabies sink tour trial for $2,500â³. In that article it is claimed that a proposed Possible- Probableâs [selection trial] match was postponed because of extraordinary pay demands from the Wallabies players. The facts in this matter are as follows: 1. In or about August 2008 the ARU gave the rights to the NSWRU to host an Australia A match at the SFS; 2. In reliance on this the NSWRU sold from September 2008 as part of their membership package for 2009 an Australia A game; 3. In or about December 2008 the ARU withdrew from the Pacific Six nation tournament thus preventing the NSWRU from hosting the A game they had sold to members as part of their membership package; 4. In May 2009 the ARU first approached the RUPA to seek the playerâs view on match fee for a game at the SFS to prepare the players for the game against the All Blacks scheduled to take place three weeks in Tokyo and to use it for selection of some younger fringe players for the upcoming European tour; 5. Discussions between the RUPA and the ARU then proceeded on details surrounding the match. From those discussions it emerged the match would be billed as the Wallabies V Australian Barbarians played at the SFS on a Sunday afternoon so that the NSWRU could honour its commitments to its members who has purchased the membership packages with an Australia A fixture included; 6. Discussions also took place directly between the Wallaby player group and the ARU senior management in June and July over the subject; 7. In August the RUPA, on behalf of the Wallaby group, conveyed to the ARU that if the game proposed was to be played at the SFS to ensure the NSWRU fulfilled its obligations to its members and therefore generate revenue then it was only reasonable the players be paid the usual fee for a similar A ... |
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| Hey Ado, How about they get a good old fashion tough forward coach - Mitch. Then the WALs could have two kiwi's as coaches. That should sit well with all my Aussie mates. Blessings mel |
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| How embarrassing and what a blight on the game that the chance to represent your country has been devalued to the point of bickering over player dollars for a trial match. Time to get tough with the players and coaches. What we saw last Saturday was a total capitulation by a side with no back bone. It's symptomatic of the Wallas. I picked that NZ would amp up and questioned wether this was a winnable game, but that effort was woeful. Oh and Bob Dwyer is right- Deans needs to reasses Williams and Graham. I for one would get Gordon Tallis down to the forwards camp and give them some stick. They also need a Billy Johnston type to re-engineer their fitness. The backs needs some Joey Johns creativity as well. Interesting that the guys I just mentioned are all ex league. Says a bit about the starch that's missing form the Wallabies. |
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