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| Hi all! Great win for the Blacks, have seen highlights but going on reports sounded like a close one with the AB's finishing up by dominating the forwards. Donald had a good game, even I was doubting that would happen. Love catching up with these threads, not much has changed, Gale still claiming it could have been a 20 point win even though they lost. C'mon Gale change the record you can do better than that. Ado, did you really write all that stuff below, c'mon man Allan Jones wins a Bledisloe and a grand slam and he's a coach of greatness. Fair enough if that's your opinion, but I prefer two Grand Slams one without a try being scored by the opposition, heaps of bledisloes, heaps of Trinations and last Saturdays win. It doesn't matter who's in the team, the coach still has to get them to play well together. I know I battling up hill on this one but he's still a great coach in my book. Looks like he got one over Deans again but there's plenty of time yet for the Wallabies. Killer, keep them honest otherwise you will only hear things Australian around here and you've just seen how that turns out. Muzz, great laugh on the other thread, crikey the boys have been running amuck with there ridculing of the AB's before the game, nice come back by you though. Good luck all for the next games, I hope we win one in SA it looks like the toughest assignment with three on the trot and two of those in SA |
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| Check your drivel Ado, dates times etc. 50 Years now theres a laugh. QF 99 OMG what are you drinking fool! Mark Ella's me mate! Are you sure Ado, you know how you are with facts. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| If you only knew the truth....thats why the Ella's refuse to be on the selection panel for the Wallabies | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Ado, I accept what you say, my statement was based on some mates who played in that era, who were all pretty strongly of the opinion I expressed. Also in a documentary on the ABC recently, that was also suggested, and Mark didn't appear to deny it. It doesn't alter my opinion of Jones, however, of whom I have pretty good knowledge right back to his days at Kings. Froggy PS I agree with you regarding the Mark, most naturally talented player I have seen in my lifetime. |
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| Ado, I am about to go surfing, so I will get back to your comments. However, let me say, "your dog could coach better...." Not too objective of an opinion mate! It is hard to argue with statistics and GH has got some seriously good statistics to argue against what you are saying. I would have preferred Dingo but that is not to be. However, to say that GH is not a good coach is just not giving the guy credit that he deserves. Somehow you have lost objectivity here. Blessings Mel |
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| Froggy, Mark Ella didn't retire because of Jones. He had always committed to himself to retire at 25. He had a marketing degree and that was his focus. Only 25 test...could've been anything...including a leaguey. I know this because he's a mate. Cheers | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Just watched "The History of the AB's" on history channel. Geez these guys take this game very very seriously. If Oz are to win they have to leave nothing on the field. Being an AB is their life and they will step up and contest this game with everything they have. Australia have to go into this game believing they can win but knowing that the victory will take everything they've got. GO WALLABIES |
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| Ado, sorry, senior moment, Eddie did win the S14 with the side MacQueen had created for him. Froggy |
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| Hey Ado, You've got me mixed up with someone else mate, I'm no fan of Henry's. Chopper |
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| Ado, Eddie didn't win the S14, Nucifora did with the Brumbies (after he had been sacked!!) I am not in full agreement re Jones. Jones had some real positives, professionalism as you say, the ability to structure a game to exploit the weaknesses in an opposition, and he could be a great motivator. He had a couple of major weaknesses, however. One was a real tendency to have favourites and those out of favour, which had a lot more to do with things like personality and background than rugby ability. He was also very poor at managing particularly creative players, and required every one to play within the box he had designed for them. Alan Jones was single handedly responsible for the early retirement of one of our greatest ever talents, Mark Ella. Froggy |
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| Unlike Chop chop, I am a Henry Knocker. My dogs rear end could have out coached him with the quality of cattle he has had. Let's not forget that Eddie got a start because he won the S14. Logical appointment that for a whole bunch of reasons didn't work out. That said if he was coaching under the ELV's he would have done alright. In my thinking Australia have had 3 great coaches which outshine anyone NZ has ever had. Alan Jones who coached the Wallas to a grand slam and the first Oz coach to win back the Bledisloe on foreign soil in 50 years. He bought profesionalism to the amateur game. Ask any of the boys who played under him and thats what they'll all tell you. Bob Dwyer who, 10 years after first coaching the Wallas took risks, like bringing in three kids who hadn't even played for their state and a year later won a world cup. In the process delivering the most decisive victory over NZ I have ever seen. (Dublin QF 1999). Then there's McQueen. McQueen had some great players,but some who, in any other era wouldn't have got a start. He out thought his opponents and in Eales he had a once in a generation leader. Any one of them is a 10 times better coach than Henry. With the exception of the odd freak like Eales, Ella and Campo, they have moulded Australian sides made up of brilliant, good and average. Even Jones who had nothing more than the ungainly Rob Egerton and a second grade half in Nick Farr-Jones to work with, moulded them into the best side in the world. I know I'll cop it from the K1's for my view on coaching, but when we beat you...and I'll agree its not that often, we do because our coaching is superior in every way. So none of you can tell me Henry is in the same league as these guys who deserve the title of a 'Great national coach'. If any of the coaches I mentioned had the raw material he has had to work with, then NZ would have at least two more world cups. Sadly for NZ, and I'm sincere in this, your best one got away. |
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| Look it was a bad analagy and Ado is right. Firstly I think MacQueen was a great coach and even though he got out when he did he probably could have carried on and certainly done better than Eddie who still as you say keeps popping up everywhere with his tidbits. He led Australia through there pest ever period probably in there history and they have yet to climb back to those heights. My point although badly made was that it doesn't matter what personel you have , you have to be able to get them to work together as a team. GH can be credited for getting the most out of a lot of those players and bringing them together as a group. IMO he is a great coach (not the greatest) and aside from the WC he has been at the highest level. GH's biggest mistake was saying "Judge me on the WC" well I guess thats whats happened/happens in a lot of cases. Perhaps he meant the next WC.........LOL. |
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| Killer, I'm not a Henry knocker (Although I think he got it all wrobg last WC) but I think the real mark of MacQueen's ability was what happened the moment he left. There wasn't a huge change in personnel immediately, but the great self-promoter Eddie Jones, in the space of a few short years, lost the Bled, WC, Tri-nations, Cook Cup & Mandella Trophy, all of which we held when he took over. The contrast was staggering, although points to Eddie for front, he still insists on lecturing Australia (and any-one else) about what they are doing wrong (that was after taking Qld to their worst-ever finish in the S14). MacQueen was the best Wallabies coach in my lifetime, GH has a great record, but I think 2007 is the blot that keeps him below an all time great IMO. Froggy |
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| Killer, Adding to Ado's comments about MacQueen, there's one crucial thing he's got over Henry: he knew when to quit. He left at the pinnacle of his career, having turned an amateur group of die hards into a truly professional team of the highest standard. And he created a pool of talent to follow for the next 3 or so years. Unfortunately, the coaches & staff who followed didn't have the same vision. |
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| Killer, Larkham was an FB before McQueen got him into the Wallas and Burke was a centre. Have a look at his team sheet for 99 RWC and it wasn't nearly as impressive as the 'unbeatable' 99 NZ side. There were quite a few Neville nobody's in the squad. McQueen won a world cup because he was a brilliant coach not because his squad was brilliant. Henry is a country mile behind McQueen as a coach. Oh sorry that's right, he's got the best winning percentage of any NZ coach in the history of the game.....whatever! |
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| Rod McQueen had Eales, Larkham, Gregan, Kefu, Roff, Burke and Horan. Does that make him a bad coach? Or could anyone do what he did with those players? |
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| Bish, nicely put mate. And hard to disagree with. It's always worth adding that GH has had the benefit of some of the greatest players of the modern era: McCaw, Carter, Hayman, Jack, Marshall, Umaga, Rockocoko, Sivivatu, Muliaina, Howlett and a bunch of talent who are just under this group (Mealamu, Williams, Yoda, Thorn, So'oialo etc etc). Interesting to note that McCaw & Carter have no immediate successors of note. Hayman, Jack and Umaga have not been replaced by men of comparable talent and charisma and Mils has noone within coo-ee of him (despite my like for Jane). It could also be argues that NZ doesn't have a consistent halfback, although Leonard is - IMO - a champ. |
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| More good news for NZ rugby. Carter said it was possible he could play for Canterbury province by the early rounds of the New Zealand domestic championship, which begins in August, and might be available for Tri-Nations Tests in September. "In the last couple of weeks I've been doing a bit of speed work and playing some anaerobic games with the Canterbury boys as well," Carter said. "I can run freely and it's just about getting that spring and bounce back in my injured leg. "I haven't started contact yet and I guess that will be the next test. In terms of running, there's no nerves or apprehension about that." |
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| Gale I think you make a fair point with GH not selecting someone like O'Conner. I do think however GH has a lot more to answer too then Deans. One thing is gauranteed in NZL, whoever disagrees with the current situation tends to be the most vocal. With Henry it was, "play the best don't blood new players your diluting the jersey" to "why have we no depth, why have players not been blooded" and "the players are tired and burnt out" to "Rest and Rotation is a Henry device and has to go"... the list goe's on and on and on The new one is "Why are they not giving the up and coming star in NZ rugby, U20 no.10 Cruden a go" At the same time and no doubt by some of the same people there is massive critism of former U20 star Isaia Toeava and his rise to the top being too early.... e.t.c I am a Henry fan, I dont agree with everything however he has a coaching record that will take decades to compete with. |
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| Am I hearing right here??? Piri Weepu could be five eighth?? Lord have mercy on the Kiwis. No, hang on....I retract that. Just....que sera, sera.... | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| It seems to me that that is a problem that has only entered in GH coaching in the last couple of years. In the past he has blooded new players but this season seems to be picking on reputation and the some of those players are not delivering. However, his true test will be next week. Blessings Mel |
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| And therein lies the problem with Henry & co: they pick on reputation rather than form, although I'd argue Joe has played well in the test this season. Unlike great AB coaches of the past he doesntseem to have confidence in the abilities of players who aren't experienced. A guy like O'Connor just wouldn't get a run with a coach like GH. |
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| Gale, I am not sure why GH is picking some of the players that he has picked. If they are not inform they should not be included. Rokocoko is a good example. He is not playing well and we have wings that are playing well but GH chooses Big Joe anyway. Go figure. Also, the inclusion of players from the chiefs makes sense. They were one of the best S14 teams this year and I believe the players have played themselves into contention. Really, it is the same point - if they are playing well then include them. IMO Leonard is the best halfback in the country and Donald is the 2nd best no 10. I would be good to see how he does behind a pack going forward rather than a pack going backwards. Not too many no 10's look good behind a pack going backwards. He has suffered from not have the best forward pack on the field so far this year. However, that is about to change against AUS next week. Blessings Mel |
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| Galeforce That's why i put the question mark, he is not yet Allblack material, they are scr-aping the bottom of the barrel. |
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| Mex, doubt you'll get your wish for chiefs players featuring. Pity for AB, good news for Aus. Killer, Stephen Brett!? What's wrong with you bro? I'd hardly rate him as even a 3rd rate international. He had a few reasonable games for Saders toward end of season, including an excellent penultimate game, but that's it. Wallabies supporters will happily embrace his inclusion. LOL! |
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