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| Agreed Trev. I think it takes them from being the #1 contender to being anywhere from 3-6. We'll see I guess. Still - if you're going to talk about wins in conference, then losses in conference have to be considered as well. They've won 4 less, but lost 5 more. That's a major problem. And considering the East? Yes, they East do have the two best records in the league... they also only have 6 teams with winning records, compared to 10 in the West. As it stands now, two teams make the playoffs from the East with lower than .500 records! That's awful! The East is actually weaker than ever, despite the presence of Boston & Detroit. |
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| Ummm.... trev? It's not 4, it's a difference of 9. You don't just take the wins, you take the loss difference as well. ;)" The Suns have one four less conference games then the Lakers don, thats my point. Like i said, on paper the % looks pretty $hithouse. Im not sticking up for the Suns and im sure as hell not bagging the Lakers. I just dont think that master is giving the Suns enough cred for their current win loss record, especially since the 2 best records in the league are currently held by Eastern teams. And for the record, I think the Suns are going to remain a contender in the West now that Shaqs on board but I still think trading Marion was a mistake |
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| One-on-one? Marion was Phoenix's best defender, period. Fine on stops - but you don't really think Shaq's going to a better job on any of the players you named, do you? Guy can't even AVERAGE 8 rebounds a game the last two years! Not saying that the Suns are going to miss out, I will make a bet with you know that they do decline from where they are now tho' in the rankings. Wanna take it? A 6pack of local beers... Sook about Rob Horry? Err... am I? Like I really give an eff either way, but you still know the truth on that one. ;) As did the entire city of San Antonio - who gave ol' Cheap Shot Rob a standing ovation the next time he was able to take the court. You think the Suns are the team to beat in the West? Great. Take my bet. Why is it that I frequently read stuff here that I read no-where else? :P Agreed on shipping Marion out... but really? This is the best they could do??? You tell me: why are Miami fans rejoicing and Phoenix fans down in the dumps... |
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| <<how does trading your best defensive player upgrade your defense?>> no doubt marion is a great one-on-one defender, and he did do a great job on tony parker, but it is the bigs who always beat up on phx. would marion stop either gasol or bynum? no. would he stop duncan? no. would he stop boozer? i wouldnt think so. would he stop dirk? maybe. so that leaves him guarding 2's and 3's - of which the best ones i can think of are mcgrady (hates the playoffs), melo (done nothing in the playoffs) and odom (whatever). hell, he doesnt even guard kobe when they play the lakers. <<DIAW? Guy is more outta shape than Shaq is! Hell, placing hopes in him?>> who said anything about placing hopes on him, outside of he will help them out 'if' shaq is gonna miss any time. <<Simply saying "the suns have never had an issue with winning in the regular season" doesn't mean that they're going to continue to do so, especially after such an earth-shattering change in personnel and philosophy.>> so what are you saying, the suns arent even going to make the playoffs?? <<You don't think the Spurs are happy? Hell, I disagree. Was laughing about it with a Dallas fan, we both thought it eliminates Phoenix as a legitimate contender>> cool, thats your opinion. i think suns are the team to beat in the west now. i didnt think they had a chance before that trade. and you can have a sook about rob horry all you want, but it still doesnt give them a ring and nor does it mean they would have won one. <<Of *course* Shaq won't be playing the high screen and roll, if the Suns are runnin' he won't be anywhere NEAR the hoop...>> *sigh* <<Shawn Marion - it's absolute BS that he's a cancer. From what I've read, Amare is a prima donna who has a problem with Marion.>> maybe, but if they dont like eachother, isnt it a smart move to ship one of them out? and which one would you move don? its gonna be a lovefest in the suns locker room with shaq in the house. |
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| 4 games? Ummm.... trev? It's not 4, it's a difference of 9. You don't just take the wins, you take the loss difference as well. ;) |
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| "The Suns are 14-13 against the West ,the Lakers are 18-8 that isn't a little difference" Thats 4 games master, with the Lakers a game in hand. The conference win % does look nasty on paper, but with 4 conference games difference from 27 games played i its a bit harsh implying that they are going to have trouble contending in the West. |
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| he's told "yup, going to move you". That'd get old, fast. This trade is stupid. Even Mike D'Antoni had it as BS until it actually happened. |
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| lol... Whoooooooooole lotta 'ifs' there. When was the last time Shaq was anything LIKE a dominant force? Not for 2 years. As I've read many, many times - how does trading your best defensive player upgrade your defense? DIAW? Guy is more outta shape than Shaq is! Hell, placing hopes in him? Historically when a big man's hips/knees go (and both have gone in Shaq), then that's it. They stay gone. Spurs won the last series because of Horry. I know it, you know it, Robert Horry knows it, the Spurs know it, so do the Suns. Why they made a massive change of style (and they are going to need to) is beyond me. Simply saying "the suns have never had an issue with winning in the regular season" doesn't mean that they're going to continue to do so, especially after such an earth-shattering change in personnel and philosophy. You don't think the Spurs are happy? Hell, I disagree. Was laughing about it with a Dallas fan, we both thought it eliminates Phoenix as a legitimate contender. Do you really think Shaq can legitimately defend the bigs in the West? All of them are too quick for him. Even Yao & Timmy! If Shaq's still that 'leet, why have Miami only won 9 games this season? Why are Riley & co. falling over themselves to get rid of him? Of *course* Shaq won't be playing the high screen and roll, if the Suns are runnin' he won't be anywhere NEAR the hoop... Blaming the style the Suns have been running is a flawed argument. The Run 'n' gun didn't win them a championship last year merely because the refereeing crew didn't do their job. If suspensions had've been handed down to Horry, Ginobli & Bowen - like they should've - then the Suns win that series. Shawn Marion - it's absolute BS that he's a cancer. From what I've read, Amare is a prima donna who has a problem with Marion. Marion comes in every season, and is arguably the best player on the roster (incl. Nash), year in, year out. Every season he's in trade rumours... and ever ... |
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| the shaq trade - i really really like it, provided shaq gets and stays healthy. - shaqs health is clearly the key issue and is obviously where most of the skepticism is coming from (and rightly so too). in saying that, he passed a medical from the suns doctors so they have obviously identified the hip problem, and they know what he has to do to rehab the injury. - the suns have never had an issue with winning in the regular season. even if shaq sits out the next 3 weeks to get healthy, the likes of nash, amare, diaw and barbosa should be able to win more games then they lose to keep them towards the top of the west. the primary reason for trading for shaq is to win in the playoffs. and more specifically, against the spurs (add lakers now too). - spurs have always come out on top and mainly because of duncan. even though shaq is nowhere near his prime, he has beaten duncan consistantly in the past. i cant see the spurs been particularly happy about this trade. - maybe chris paul is the best point guard in the league now, but in this situation, where you want a PG who is going to create and get open dunks and layups for two big men, steve nash is the man. shaq is absolutely going to love playing with nash. - people say shaq wont be effective playing the high screen and roll. he wont be playing it anyway, amare will. and its always been amare/nash doing it. - marion is out of the locker room and along with him is all his whinging and b/itching. - people say shaq is too slow to play phx style basketball, and maybe he is, but the run and gun style hasnt won them a championship yet. slowing it down and playing more half court sets might actually work for them now, especially since they have a legit big man, and can now move amare to his natural postion at PF. also, if they need to pick up the pace, sub barbosa for shaq and they are in run an gun mode again. no team can change up the pace in a game better then the suns now. |
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| The Suns are 14-13 against the West ,the Lakers are 18-8 that isn't a little difference. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| The Suns only have a Conference win % slightly less than the Lakers master, and there 3 games clear. Finishing with the best record in the West would still give them homecourt advantage through the playoffs. Doesnt matter but because theres still 30 plus games to go | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| From what I've read/heard, another factor is that the word was that Dallas were considering getting Shaq. Pre-emptive block? Whatever the reasoning, there were better options out there than O'Neal. |
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| The really interesting thing about the Shaq trade is that they were considering it pre-Gasol to the Lakers. Whilst that may have been the deciding factor in them pulling the trigger on the deal,they were in serious discussions before that. As to the Suns being the 1st seed in the West so why did they change the team in this way.Just check out their conference record they are barely over .500.Their lead is entirely due to their being better against the East than all the other contenders in the West and come play off time that isn't a big help. |
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| I think they're worried about Kidd-to-Dallas eventuating too. Talk about hasty decisions... |
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| yep, trevor they obviously got freaked out completely by the Gasol trade... and as for Miami, Marion would be a good player to have but if they do get rid of him then they are in a fantastic position to rebuild around Wade... |
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| Its a strange move on the Suns behalf, even more so considering the Suns currently have the best record (34-14) in the West. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Interesting to see the trade happen after seeing it surface a week ago with all the Suns fans not overly keen shall we say. If Shaq could play 33 minutes a night even at the level he has this year I think you can make a case for the trade being ok. But I don't think I would be prepared to take the risk of Shaq actually being able to do that when he hasn't all year. Also funny to see Sarver the Suns owner who only a few months ago gave Seattle 2 1st round picks to take Kurt Thomas to avoid the Luxury Tax and save some money taking on Shaqs deal. Miami must be unable to believe their luck that they managed to trade him.All they need to do now is really pi$$ off Marion so that he opts out and they will have a reasonable amount of money to spend on free agents in the off season to start rebuilding with. |
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| Indeed ne0n, but I don't think you've read much if you think that it was done with the Spurs in mind. But I do agree with you that it's a trade that makes absolutely no sense at all... |
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| SHAQ TRADED???!!! http://with-malice.com/2008/02/06/no-more-high-oct ane-phoenix-goes-diesel/ |
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| Neon, the Chris Paul bandwagon hit a slight hick up with the Hornets getting smashed by the Jazz. But he ll be back. As will New Orleans. Dont forget, this is a Jazz team playing some fantastic basketball at the moment, as they showed by pulled down the Warriors pants today and giving them a good spanking. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| I did not just read on Y!NBA that Shaq has been traded to Phoenix! Must have been some error! Wait a minute... further details... for Shawn Marion? ROFL!! Obviously the trade was done with San Antonio in mind, but did Steve Kerr completely forget that they will have to go through Dallas and maybe LA just to get to the Alamodome? If anyone can come up with a positive spin on this trade, I would love to hear it but I really hope Shaq fails his physical thus voiding the trade... BTW Marion for Gasol would have made more sense than Shaq |
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| <<the Lakers as the bad guys with every loss heavily criticised>> Can't be any worse than all of you... Great first start - 24 points/12 rebs in his first game as a Laker. |
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| the Chris Paul for MVP bandwagon has. hit a roadblock... thoroughly spanked by Utah's Deron Williams in what promises to be a budding future head to head rivalry.... |
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| oh okay don, we get it, yes the Lakers have got it good :P but you know what? it won't be long before the media turn on them similar to what happened to the Patriots or that season when LA had Malone and Payton I think obviously they'll pitch for a Boston v LA finals but will adopt the Celtics as their darlings and make the Lakers as the bad guys with every loss heavily criticised as the rest of the season goes.. you know that's how it goes! :) |
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| To be fair, he's playing injured. Shaq's refusing to retire before the end of his contract. Not so surprised, as recent reports have him spending between $US800,000 - 900,000 a month!!! Given the recent trade, it's worth noting that either directly/indirectly for the O'Neal trade, the Lakers got: Odom, Gasol, Bynum. Not too shabby. |
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