|
|||
|
Message Boards
|
|||
|
Pages: |
| While you were sleeping... The Rockets won 12 straight. But with the Spurs improving, NO (who have been pretty consistent all season), and the new Kidd Dallas, does anyone give them a realistic chance in their division? Or in the playoffs? |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| I think that Wallace's performance is what will decide if the trade is good or very good for the Cavs.If he plays like he did in Chicago this year it will be good if he plays better it will be very good. I'd have Boston/Detroit favourites against them in a series as well, but I think both have the potential to go either way. |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Dunno... I'd suggest Wallace is just as crucial. But I agree that not enough attention has been paid - in particular - to Smith... and as you say, his performance could be vital. But I still assert they haven't an ice-cube's chance in hell against Detroit/Boston. |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Most writers have spent far too much time discussing Wallace in the deal and not enough time discussing the other 3 guys who are a lot more important to its success or failure than Wallace is. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Wally is going to play SG mostly and this year he has held his opponent to a much lower shooting percentage than Hughes has.Hughes this season is a shadow of his former defensive self. The too old to trade thing is irrelevant because they weren't going to be able to deal Hughes with his contract until he was expiring and they won't be able to deal Wallace until he is expiring either its a wash.Wally will be gone next season most likely so his age doesn't matter. Wallace didn't seem to care this season in Chicago so I'd expect him to improve just by trying a bit more with the change of scenery.Not to his Detroit days but closer to how he was in Chicago last year,So reasonable rebounding numbers,averageish defence and no offence. Chad Ford has no idea what he is talking about with his comments.How does bringing in an expiring deal next year in Wally prevent another big deal?,The Cavs have up to $34m in expiring deals next year if you include Pavlovic,$29m without including him that gives them opportunities to make a deal big , little or both. |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| And talking of writers - yup, some like the deal (Hollinger for one - and he's good)... Some don't. Chad Ford, for example - "LeBron is happy ... for the moment. It's not clear that Ben Wallace, Wally Szczerbiak, Joe Smith and Delonte West bring enough to the table to put the Cavs on par with the Celtics and Pistons. And the team's cap flexibility is now practically gone. It's doubtful GM Danny Ferry can make another big move before LeBron hits free agency in 2010." Yahoo's Kelly Dwyer: "Ben Wallace was hideous for the Chicago Bulls this year. It makes sense. He's 33. He's an undersized center who has been playing deep into the playoffs since 2002, and there's not a lot of tread left on the tired. I mean, "tires." " JE Skeets (Yahoo) quotes: "Wally is not Larry Hughes, though I would encourage you all to remember—this man once stole a pass from teammate Kevin Garnett. And up in Seattle, he's made an art form out of freezing out Durant. Wallace's brokedown-ness is roughly equivalent to Gooden's poor judgment..." Easy to find either way... |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Mandati - is only because you've 'heard' of Ben Wallace that you've got this boner for him? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| My reasoning? Mandati... do you even watch the NBA? Ben Wallace has played like absolute JUNK this season. He's been rubbish, period. You have read that? A "don favourite"? You're being a *** today Mandati - is it that time of the month? |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| And whats your reason ,he is old , and you call that excellent reasoning .cmon don.didnt we discuss the validity of opinions once before.we shall see at the end of the season. and to use a don favourite -what have all the media experts been saying about the deal.most i have read call it a good deal for cleveland so ner-ner to you..lol.. |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| i am going to have to agree with mandati on the boozer issue. no doubt what ferry did was stupid. but what boozer did was deceiptful and wrong. having the cavs terminate his contract that was going to pay him about $1 million dollars on a promise to re-sign him for $8 million, then shopping yourself around for the best deal, and then not even giving the cavs the opportunity to match the offer - c'mon, thats scumbag material. i would hate to be business partners with anyone that doesnt have a problem with what boozer did. and don, how do you think cleveland were going to get considerably better any time before the larry hughes contract became an expiring one or completely expired anyway?? they were already locked into the luxry tax for the next 2. at least the fact that they have gotten marginally better (or at least tried), it may appease le bron and convince him to resign. and as for getting older, i dare say this is only a 2 year plan anyway - the same plan as what they were on before they made this trade. most, if not all of these players wont be on the cavs roster come the end of their contracts - either traded off before their contract expires or released once it does finish. and wally may be more valuable then you think, he will be a $12 million dollar expiring contract next year, a large expiring they didnt previously have for next year. and we now all know what large expiring contracts can be worth. you may not think this is a good deal for cleveland, but explain to me how they could have done any better over the next 2 years? |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| I have no idea WHY you both think Wallace will be better, and neither have you has offered more than an 'I-think-so'. Oh well... Wally is a better fit offensively for the Cavs than Hughes, but he is a massive liability defensively, and Hughes was one of their best perimeter defenders. Wally and Larry have very, very similar numbers scoring-wise (with ol' Wal' being more accurate). The perimeter D *should* bother you, as the Cavs are not as able to defend against teams that are going to spread the floor... and gee - Detroit, Boston, Toronto are all going to do that. And the issue about getting older is that not only does your team have issues with 'time-to-get-it-done', they become more difficult to trade. And if you're not making the team good enough to compete, and making it harder to improve it in the next few years - why do it... |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| The Cavs have improved because every player they got is better than those they sent out. Smith is better than Gooden,Wally is better than Hughes,Wallace and West are better than the other scrubs they sent out. It isn't a massive improvement it is just an incremental one.Wallace will be better in Cleveland to start with anyway in my opinion than he was in Chicago but he isn't going to be anywhere close to what he was in Detroit. The older part wouldn't bother me too much as I think a few of them will be shipped out next season as expirings to make a real improvement to the talent of the team.Hughes has not been great defensively this year so I don't think the drop off in perimeter defense will be too big. Like i said before I don't see it as being a big improvement just makes the team a little better. |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Yeah sorry don I was only having a bit of a dig mate ,not meaning to impinge on your honour so please dont slap me with your gauntlet..lol.. And yes i know there was never a official binding agreement but still the cavs should have been able to trust him anyway its done with now.. I think lebron will make ben play like detroit ben .. |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Add to that: Cleveland always had the option to pay Boozer what he was obviously worth. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Pretty rude assertion mandati. Remind me that you take everything that's said as being gospel, and set in stone. And that's the Cavs' assertion. Boozer's version is that yes he did agree to go back, but made no binding agreement - which is true. If he had made a binding agreement, he'd not have been allowed to go to the Jazz. Ah - not sure how you think they've improved. They're older, slower, their perimeter defense is a lot worse. What have you seen lately that makes you think Ben Wallace is going to be the Ben he was in Detroit, rather than the Ben he was in Chicago? |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| master ah is another who lacks 'good faith'..lol.. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| So I take it 'your word' means nothing to you don? The cavs told boozer they couldnt afford a big contract untill the following season and all the could afford was the mid -level but he said yeah i will take the mid level now and cleveland acted in good faith.The cavs could have taken up the 2nd yr option if they liked but they tried to do the right thing.Remind me not to do business with you...lol.. You are right that ferry has made some other bad deals but if they still had the booz things would be a lot different |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| As has been said the Cavs haven't hurt their cap because they had no way to get under it the next couple of seasons ,so they improved without having to take on longer contracts.I would still have Detroit and Boston ahead of them but I'd put the Cavs above Orlando, until they find someone who can consistently put the ball in Dwight's hands I think they are going to underacheive in the playoffs. I'd blame Ferry for the Boozer situation too, Boozer was perfectly entitled to do what he did even though I presume he had an agreement beforehand with the Cavs.You don't put someone in a position through your actions where they can shaft you and then whinge about them doing it. I expect Ben Gordon to be on the way out in the off season, i think the Bulls will take Deng over him to resign. |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Boozer didn't do the dirty on them... Boozer got a better offer, and had made no binding commitment. You're telling me you'd stay in a job that paid you half? Cleveland stuffed up on that, and on the deals Ferry made to get guys that weren't right for the team - Hughes should never have been acquired. |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Lebron seemed happy with the deal so thats all that matters really. What stuffed up cleveland was boozer who did the dirty on them , ferry tried to do the right thing and got burnt. |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| As I said Slops: "even if they're not exactly sure WHERE they'll be." Not definite it'll be Oklahoma - that would have to be ok'd by all the Owners. And there's still a pending lawsuit from the City of Seattle. I still think that Ferry effed them, but he did that a while ago. |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Is Seattle still going to Oklahoma? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| <<And my point is - if they're not going to compete with Detroit/Boston, why do it at all?>> simple answer really - le bron. if ferry didnt look like he was trying to get le bron some help, he definately walks at the end of his contract. as it stands, he still may bolt, but i think this current unit is better equiped to make a run over the next year or 2, thus pleasing le bron and possibly increasing the chances of him resigning. whilst cleveland might be paying more luxury tax over the next 2 years with wallace instead of hughes, their contracts expired at the same time, so they are still on course to try and be a player on the market with wallaces expiring contract in the 09/10 season, or when it expires at the end of that season. as for making a play on someone this offseason, they would have needed someone to trade them a large expiring contract for larry hughes - which no one was going to do. not even mchale. <<In 3 years time, Seattle will be the best off of these 3 franchises... unless something amazing happens in the central north-east between now & then.>> something amazing may happen don. it wont be seatle, it will be oklahoma ;) i like their postion too. they already have a budding superstar, a solid guy who should be a decent pro for 10 plus years in green, plus all these draft picks. a lot of pieces need to be filled, but i think presti has done a great job clearing all these contracts and aquiring all these draft picks. the future looks very bright for oklahoma city. |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Yeah, but it doesn't make Cleveland that much better - some would argue they're not. And my point is - if they're not going to compete with Detroit/Boston, why do it at all? Better to clear room, and make a play on someone this off -season... They are simply making it more unlikely that LeBron stays a Cav. Danny Ferry stuffed this team, and it's a pity. Funny thing is - both Cleveland and Chicago fans are happy over this. Cav-fans hated Hughes with a passion, and Chicago fans detested Wallace with no less antipathy. Neither team is quite aware of what they are, what they want to be, or how to get there. Which is why I think Seattle are the best of this 3. They know who they are, what they want to be - and they have a plan on how to get there... even if they're not exactly sure WHERE they'll be. In 3 years time, Seattle will be the best off of these 3 franchises... unless something amazing happens in the central north-east between now & then. |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| no doubt seatle have done very well out of their wheeling and dealings over the course of the last few months. they now have stockpiled 6 first rounders and 7 second rounders to work with over the next 3 drafts - which aside from getting some good prospects (as mandati said, if they use them wisely), it puts them in a strong position to pull off some trades to bring in some vetern talent to help out durant. and given their cap space available, they will have alot of flexability moving forward to build a good team. but i still think cleveland has done well too. wallace is definatantly overpaid, and well past his best, but if i had to choose to pay him $30 mil over the next 2 seasons or larry hughes $27 mil over the same period, i would take wallace any day. he can be a good defender, he'll rebound at a decent rate, and provided he doesnt cause any grief in the locker room, can still be useful. larry hughes is horribly inconsistant, cant shoot, and takes heaps of bad shots - just a complete waste of space imo. also, cleveland have added some good three point sh/ooters to flank le bron. with west, wally and boobie parking themselves on the 3 point line, opposition teams will have to choose between double teaming lebron and leaving the 3 point sh/ooters open, or trying to plaY bron straight up and allowing him to dominate. dont know if this takes cleveland to the boston detroit level, but i think it definantly makes them more competitive in a 7 game series. and if le bron gets hot, anything can happen, as detroit found out last year. as for the bulls, i can honestly say i have never seen such a promising group of players collapse into mediocrity (and thats been nice) so quickly. and then to add larry hughes and drew gooden (who i also dont rate), i really feel for chicago fans. they are basically in full rebuild mode again. |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Pages: |
|
Copyright © 2009 Yahoo! Pty Limited. All rights reserved. Advertise with Us - Privacy Policy - Terms of Service - Help |