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| $$ doesn't make it any less an issue. Matter of fact, hit a guy's wallet, it's probably the HARDEST place to hit him. And that Odom *wants* to be a Laker really doesn't impact much. AK-47 won't happen. Matter o' fact - I don't think Marion gets traded. |
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| Back on topic, Shawn Marion has decided to focus on basketball for training camp. From one of my articles on MVN: "I highly doubt this trade demand is about basketball or Marion’s relationship with other players. The problem is money. Marion is the highest paid player on the team, but he still wants more. Shawn will make $16.4 million this season and $17.9 million in 2008/2009 if he chooses not to opt out of the contract. Mike D’Antoni has stated that Marion is unhappy with the business side of things, not with the basketball." Hopefully they can resolve this issue. If not, I reckon the Suns may attempt a trade later in the season. But there is another problem. According to the Los Angeles Times, Lamar Odom wants to remain a Laker. A trade for Kirilenko is possible but given his career low stats last season, any coach would have to be very sure that he can turn his game around. |
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| I'm not doing Inside Basketball anymore - only MVN. I posted a message to advise readers of the move. |
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| Other blog's dead? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Don Just letting you know, I've moved to MVN. http://mvn.com/nba-suns/ http://mvn.com/nba-endofthebench/ |
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| No way the trade'd even be considered unless Marion was signed for more. That would be from both the Laker's & Marion's perspective - afterall, that's exactly why he's p1ssed with the Suns. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| The issue is : "If L.A. traded for Marion without extending his contract, Marion could opt out next summer and hit the free-agent market. The Lakers still could re-sign him then, but the team might not want to run the risk of giving up Odom, its second most important asset, only to watch Marion leave after one season." Either way the 'Kobe and the Lakers' soap opera is fascinating stuff... |
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| Answering Sloppy: Yup, it does p1ss me off. It appears that Buss won't pull the trigger on this because he doesn't think that it makes them better than a first round playoff team... Phil's apparently signing a new contract, but has voiced concerns over the absolute effing BS spouted by Buss that "we'll get more players"... What an effing mess. |
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| Ah, that's just BS. Marion does not score his points because of the 'fast break', he scores mostly off clean up. He does NOT get the ball in set up plays - other than alley-oop or back-door plays - as he can't beat too many people off the dribble. And do you seriously think that the Lakers would expect Marion to perform the same role as Odom??? Some bizarre stuff trotted out there... |
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| Marion is only as efficient as he is because of the way the Suns play.He scores the majority of his points in play from the fast break, the Suns ranked second last year in Fast break points and the Lakers ranked equal 22nd. Unless you believe that a Farmar/Fisher combo at the point are going to ramp up the pace in LA then there is no reason to expect his efficiency to remain as it is now.More likely it would return to the levels of the Marbury Suns where he still scored his points but at a much reduced efficiency because he didn't get the same fast break opportunities as he does now. whilst Marion commits fewer turnovers than Odom this difference is basically a function of the difference in touches between the players per game.Make Marion touch the ball more often as he would likely have to do with the Lakers to get his points at a less efficient level and the turnovers will soon even up. |
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| <<f Marion puts up 20ppg with 2apg and Odom puts up 16ppg and 5 apg ,which allowing for Marion to get a few more points per game than his slight downturn last year and with every thing rounded up are last years figures then the Lakers are down 2 points per game in offensive production even though Marion is putting up identical figures to those he did in Phoenix.>> fair enough, but marion is a far more efficent player then odom. he shots 5% better from the field, 10% better from the line and turns the ball over half as much as odom. he wont require as many touches/shots to get his numbers which means there will be on average a couple of more opportunities for the likes of kobe and the rest of the lakers to score. anything they lose from odoms creativity, they will more then gain from marions efficency. and add to this marions better defensive stats (1.5 blk/2 st vs 0.6 blk/1 st), and the fact that he is a better one-on-one defender who is more likely to shut his opponent down then odom - how can you say marion wouldnt be a good fit in the lakers? <<Still, from what I've read, the ONLY thing holding this up comes from the Lakers side of the deal, not the Suns.>> don, if this is true, doesnt this pi$$ you off??? the lakers management said they would move heavan and earth to help out kobe this offseason. the lakers have been rumored to have deals done with o'neal, KG and now marion - but going into training camp their biggest move so far has been bringing in fisher. they have a perfect opportunity to upgrade odom for marion, and their management are allegedly 'considering it', - what, are they weighing up their other options out there?? if what you suggest is true, and they wait to long and phoenix pull out of the deal, i would be ropable if i was a lakers fan. |
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| 2 points I have been misquoted on that I would like to correct: 1) It wasn't me don who mentioned that getting Hill would impact on them getting Odom. 2)Sloppy said "i think saying marion wont be effective at the lakers because he cant create his own shot is been a little disrespectful to marion and what he has done throughout his whole career." I never said Marion would not be effective at the Lakers, I said that the Lakers could well end up a worse team offensively for swapping him and Odom which is different. If Marion puts up 20ppg with 2apg and Odom puts up 16ppg and 5 apg ,which allowing for Marion to get a few more points per game than his slight downturn last year and with every thing rounded up are last years figures then the Lakers are down 2 points per game in offensive production even though Marion is putting up identical figures to those he did in Phoenix. He is just as effective as ever and the Lakers are still a worse offensive team than they were last year. |
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| "No idea why you'd say "the Lakers need Odom's creative ability" (paraphrased)..." Maybe because he provided nearly a quarter of the assists on a team that were middle of the league in that respect whereas the Suns led the league comfortably. "Offensively, Marion's a better fit for the Lakers than he is for the Suns as he doesn't need the ball to score" And as such he is much better suited to a running team like the Suns where he can get points on the fast break and mop up as the third option rather than being relied on as the second option as he would be in LA. " Odom's a better fit for the Suns as he can be creative & also handle the ball -" This isn't something they need though as they have a lot of guys already who can do this job most of whom are better at it than he is. |
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| Perhaps so... but he certainly isn't a slashing player any more. Nor is he going to beat too many off the dribble. I agree - he'll get ball-handling duties. As you say: all 'health permitting'... My point was that I wasn't sure what Ah was asserting when he stated that Hill would impact them taking Odom. Again, as you say "there's more to consider"... and the fact that Marion's stated he'll walk after this season certainly has an impact. I think as far as on the court - as you say, it's a case of defense vs offense... to a degree. |
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| don, i think you are been a tad hash on g. hill calling him a spot shooter at best. i agree he wont get a lot of minutes, i think phoenix have already come out and said they are going to try to limit him to 20 minutes per game to try and curb those injuries he consistantly seems to be picking up. but when he is on the court, they will run some of the offense through him. he is a glue guy that will score when he needs to score, and distribute when he needs to distribute - health permitting. in regards to the marion/odom trade - i guess it comes down to do the suns want to sacrifice the added defense they lose in trading marion for the added offense they get with odom?? there is more to consider then just that, but i think that would have to be the main consideration when evaluating what both bring to the suns on the court. when it comes to the playoffs, i think any coach would take the defense, and that includes d'antoni. |
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| <<trade marion for AK and all of a sudden utah has a front line of memhet, boozer and marion>> Add Paul Milsap to that off the bench. And they have D-Will, who is perhaps one of the strongest physical guards in the league... |
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| Really? Grant Hill is 34 years old, has had so many problems with his ankles and knees that he will never, never be what he once was. No way in hell does Hill get more minutes per game than Diaw, a player that's 10 years younger... and each year appears to get better. Hill will at best be a damn good spot shooter. I agree that Marion's defense is awesome. But neither Kirilenko nor Odom are slouches either - Odom leading the Lakers in rebounds last year, and Kirilenko being 1st in blocks & 3rd behind Boozer & Okhur for the Jazz in the 05/6 season (I think last year was an aberration). No idea why you'd say "the Lakers need Odom's creative ability" (paraphrased)... Offensively, Marion's a better fit for the Lakers than he is for the Suns as he doesn't need the ball to score. He exists off the rebounds & broken plays. Odom's a better fit for the Suns as he can be creative & also handle the ball - and that's a MUCH bigger thing for a run-&-gun team than a team who plays the triangle... especially with Kobe needing so much ball. Odom has more versatility than Marion positionally too - he *can* (and has) play pretty much every slot. The main concern for the Suns would have to be his injury. Still, from what I've read, the ONLY thing holding this up comes from the Lakers side of the deal, not the Suns. |
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| master, i agree that marion is better suited to the suns, but i still think he would do well at the lakers. its fair enough to say that he cant create his own shot, but he has never been able to create his own shot and has still always put up pretty decent offensive numbers. no doubt nash can take some of the credit for his offensive output, but marion still scored 20 before nash arrived and he was playing with shoot-first PG marbury. and even before marbury arrived in his 2nd season marion still scored 17/game. i think saying marion wont be effective at the lakers because he cant create his own shot is been a little disrespectful to marion and what he has done throughout his whole career. tlkr - AK had a terrible year last year but he is a much better player then those numbers suggest. he doesnt like playing for sloan in utah, he doesnt like playing in such a structured offense, and with the emergence of deron williams and boozer he has been pushed back to 4th option at best in offense. and to say AK isnt a good defensive player - thats absurd. he has made 3 nba all-defensive teams and whilst he isnt the best one-on-one defender, he is still decent and there is no one better in the league at helping out from the weak side. marion gives you more options on defense because of his quickness, which makes him more valuable to the suns because he can defend big and small. if nash was to be his PG, AK would be rejuvernated and i would think his numbers would increase to around 17/18 pts and 8/9 rebs with solid steals nad blks. i dont think this trade will go through either: 1 - like odom, AK is an injury waiting to happen. 2 - suns are really worried about the luxury tax, and dealing for AK doesnt help them at all. 3 - trade marion for AK and all of a sudden utah has a front line of memhet, boozer and marion. do you think phoenix wanna meet them in the playoffs. i certainly dont. |
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| Hill according to all reports from Phoenix is looking great and if that turns out to be true he is going to play serious minutes as the only other option at the SF position is Diaw who is also the back up Centre and PF. As to swapping Odom and Marion over and them being better fits with their new teams that just isn't true. Phoenix don't need Odom's creative ability the Lakers do whilst both teams need Marions defence. What LA gain in defensive ability they lose in being able to create offensively and whilst the Suns may score even more with Odom they will concede a load more too. |
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| Err... not sure how or why you think Grant Hill has anything to do with Odom. Hill's a small forward, Odom's able to play either SF or PF. Add to that, at BEST, Hill'll be a bench option, playing limited minutes. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Odom wouldn't do much for Phoenix given they brought in Grant Hill over the summer and a Marion for Kirilenko deal would make more sense IF things became worse... ___________________ Phoenix wouldn't trade Marion for Kirilenko. Shawn Marion is miles better. Kirilenko stats 06/07: 8.3 ppg 4.7 rpg 2.9 apg Marion stats 06/07: 17.5 ppg 9.8 rpg 1.7 apg Kirilenko is average, while Marion is one of the best defensive players in the league. I'm sure Utah would accept that trade, but the Suns would lose out big time. |
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| Fair enough sloppy - was just asking! Gave my views earlier... guess it's just a 'wait-&-see' now... |
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| << This is one of those deals where to me it seems as if the talent levels are pretty even but both players actually seem to fit better on the club they are on than the one they are going to.>> Errr... no. Quite the reverse is true, as sloppy pointed out. |
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| The clashes with Amare which seem to be the root cause of the problem with Marion don't seem to be too serious and Marion whilst wanting out has said that he will turn up and be professional whoever he is playing for come the start of the year so there isn't a big risk in Phoenix keeping him for one last year. This is one of those deals where to me it seems as if the talent levels are pretty even but both players actually seem to fit better on the club they are on than the one they are going to. If it happens i reckon it is probably a lose-lose deal for the two teams. |
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| gotta agree with yougotslopyseconds... Marion is taking things way too personally and given how good he has it at Phoenix his pouting is becoming embarrasing... Odom wouldn't do much for Phoenix given they brought in Grant Hill over the summer and a Marion for Kirilenko deal would make more sense IF things became worse... |
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