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| yeah..and it was teams like port and brisbane's dominance that resulted in teams like the hawks, saints and geelong being where they are today. the draft picks these teams have had over the years has gone a long way to them ending up at the top. all three of those teams have lists that should see them playinf finals footy for the next 3 years easily. if not, then it will be bad management and poor coaching that ends up their peril. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Agreed. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| when port won back in 2004, certain fans talked up dominating the AFl for years to come, yet seemed to forget we had been doing that already for years, and the 2004 premiership was merely a consolation for previous failings. === Spot on, Port won the comp at the end of their 'window'. They dominated the seasons where Brisbane won the flag, so their demise came at about the same time - because they were 'up' for just as long. If the Cats don't win it this year, I fear they may be on the decline (for a while, they'll spring back up fairly quickly I think). So they may end up with just one flag from a period of total dominance. I actually think they deserve at least 1 more - but footy rarely works like that. St Kilda thoroughly deserve the flag this year too. It is now at the point where if they don't win it, I can't see the bulk of this crew picking themselves back up! |
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| Thanks GT. And yes, this has been a MASSIVE downer of a year for the Hawks. Last year we won 20 of the 25 games we played, beat every other side at least once and took home the flag. This year, at best, we will win 10 from 22 and have a 2-10 record against sides likely to play finals! (and one of those wins was courtesy of Fev fking up the winning shot). I'm hoping the Hawks problems don't continue - I have some BAD memories of 02 when the boys were coming off a year where they were half the width of the post away from a GF. The following year we lost a number of players to injury and many more lost form. "We'll be back next year" I thought, no - same thing happened again! Both seasons we missed the 8 by a win. Those 2 seasons killed our confidence, ended a few careers and closed our 'window'. 04 and 05 were SHOCKING years as the team cleaned out a lot of dead wood. Since then it has been a solid rebuild with obvious progression. Fingers crossed history doesn't repeat (and in all honesty, this side is a million times more talented than the mob from 01). |
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| the hawks have had a sh!tty year nikki...i for one have pointed out the obvious...but once some of you realized your season is over, only now are you starting to point out things most have all year...but you need to also include other factors as reasons as to why the hawks have played poorly, and injuries kind of become a distraction somewhat, though they havent helped matters. dont worry...when port won back in 2004, certain fans talked up dominating the AFl for years to come, yet seemed to forget we had been doing that already for years, and the 2004 premiership was merely a consolation for previous failings. the same bunch of fans are the ones who have kind of disappeared since our drubbing in 2007 to geelong, and if anything, they have left the club with serious issues to deal with. it is only now that many are starting to question how the club dealt with the players after the 2007 loss. it has become a serious psychological problem, and im wondering whether the hawks are going to end up falling away. you lot are talking up next year, and in the off season, getting many players right through surgery to help with injuries etc etc...but i dont think many of you realized a lot of those players were carrying injuries through the latter part of the year. in some ways, i feel hawks fans are a bit like port. you lot dominated the 80's in the VFL...and port the same in the SANFL over here for many decades...we expect to win every week, and it has been a long time since the hawks won a premiership. the glory days returned and i feel the expectation at the club has taken its toll on the playing group. ports problem is much the same, it is just the days at alberton and club tradition are hard to instill on players who come from different backgrounds, different clubs, different states...as much as i hate to say it, i think port need to start to make their club more open to change and re-development and downplay a lot of tradition. too much division within. |
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| Nye gets respect and his team gets respect from many forum users. He doesn't say that he knows what's going on in a players head or alike, he just puts the facts up and lets them speak for his team. This is a footy forum, one can expect banter, taunts and the occasional eruption ... I can bury the hatchet Nikki if'n you are prepared to do the same. Ya gotta agree, that's a massive premiership hangover whether that be through injury or bad management who knows but the Hawks just aren't the same in 2009 . . . next year maybe ??? |
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| Nye i dont see the point in bothering myself, you are NEVER going to get an unbiased or untribalised view on here....Its all so "ground hog day". | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| gee nye....i identified with hawks problems quite sometime ago and not so long ago...however, maybe if you unearthed some of those posts, passionate hawks fans seemed to give me a serve. my team got belted at the weekend, and to me, fitness seemed an issue with some players, and to me it was a coaching failure, and also some in the team just tend to drop off when the scoreboard starts to get around being down by a few goals. 4 players came back into the team, and underperformed again. this is why we have been a yo yo team. williams drops carr, p burgoyne, ebert, pearce, salopek, they do well at sanfl level again and get a recall, yet he puts in a few youngsters like broadbent, salter, lower, then show signs of the talent they have and look good future prospects, then he whisks them out and brings back the usual suspects. we have missed motlop and s burgoyne all year, and up forward, motlop's presence has left a major hole, but the team have proved they can win games without them, but i think injuries are not an excuse anymore in afl when teams are full strength, they have so many others hanging to get a game in the team. so when they do, if they under perform, it only shows teams for being ordinary. the hawks i guess do not have the depth they seemed to feel they had when winning last year. this year has exposed them somewhat, and if anything, doesnt leave them in good steed for the next few years if they rely on the absence of certain players to get them over the line. the hawks have had many premiership players in their squad this year who simply have shown they are not as good as most thought. |
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| Fella, pretty well spot on mate. McLeaod was outstanding and the Crows have some very promising young guys coming through. I can't see an end to their run of finals for a few more years yet - though the Hawks have proven how quickly fortunes can change. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| You clearly don't realise how important these players are to the Hawks set up. I heard the same carp when the Cats won in round 17 last year - both teams were missing a few key players, but the general verdict on here was that their 'outs' were better than ours. Therefore, nobody thought the Hawks could beat a full strength Geelong. Last year we were missing 4 or 5 people on a regular basis, and won 20 of the 25 games. But taking Ladson, Young, Ellis, Roughead, Williams, Dew etc out of our setup reduced our run from the back and goal scoring opportunities. And while we may have kicked the first 5, and looked pretty good early, the problem we've had all season is a lack of fitness to run out a game. Pre season was a write off for the vast majority of our players, and ask any top player about how important a good pre-season is. My argument is merely that people should at least acknowledge the fact that injuries have played a big part in our failures this year. Those missing are key for us, those playing are under done and the entire season didn't really get started. It is not an excuse, it is a fact. |
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| lol nyerich the truth hurts. the difference is the QUALITY of the missing players obviously. it was a miracle saints won, becasue reiwoldt, montana, del santo, gardiner,goddard, etc were out. Thats a little different than one key defender out for adelaide. Cats have had johnson, ablett, scarlett, chapman,harley, bartel, ling , milburn, list goes on. There injury concerns have been far worse than the hawks. But the difference is we stil lfind ways to win WITHOUT making excuses. Notice i didnt say ottens in that injured list becasue he isnt the calibur of player of the others. So u can forget bout using dew, etc and other so so players names as an excuse. All teams have injuries, and the great ones absorb them and move on. Take judd, murphey, fevola out of carlton, just 3 players and see if they ever win a game again. But take nick stevens out and they are still a chance. Thats what i mean by calibur of the injured players. Cats losing only 3 times at this point is a miracle with the CALIBUR of injuries they have had. Where as hawthorn for about the past 10 weeks now have had a fairly good reprensentation of last years side. And to lose to the saints was just truly pathetic. Truth hurts, u might wana ignore it, might wana insult me a bit, its all good, i dont really care. Just pointing out the facts, which obviously u look at through biased glasses. I guess injuries wernt a problem when use kicked the first 5 goals of the game against adelaide right? Life must have been great,but as is hawthorn this year, the rest of there game was toss. Hope my grade 3 education has helped you, listen to me and u might learn something:) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Ok so I am late on the scene...... Got back from Melbourne late last night after a good weekend. Did all the tourist things by going to Fed Sq, the markets etc but also went to the MCG Friday night. Granted the Hawks had their fair share missing, especially Roughead who has given Rutten a touch up in the last couple. The Ponsford Stand was owned by Crows fans for the night and the roar from there was something special as the Crows got back in the game. When Rioli kicked that one off the ground it seemed it would be a good night for the Hawks but Hentschels one from the boundary and Thompsons grubber were contenders for goal of the week too, which no doubt had the drunks in front of me looking for another beer. They didnt return after 3/4 time. Went to DFO in Spencer St and to my amazement the missus said she only wanted to look! I still don't expect the Crows to go deep in the finals and I will still say they are developing. Players like Dangerfield, Otten and Walker are practically in their first years and Tippet hasn't had a lot of footy either. I hope that Hentschel can now stand up as that gives the Crows options for next year and beyond. Oh, BOG clearly was McLeod. His longest spell in the middle in a long time rejuvenated him and those Crows fans here who called him finished are still probably cleaning the egg off their faces. |
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| sherudogado, if that is your real name, yes, the Hawks were playing with only 6 missing (see ONLY 6, yet Saints lose 7 and suddenly it is a miracle that they won!). But look at what they did at that time - beat North and Collingwood and had a very good game against the Cats. It isn't just that we have missed anything from 6 to 11 GF players each week, it is that our second tier players like Bailey, Thorp and Boyle are also out. I can take a loss, and for the best part of 15 years I had plenty of experience with it! I just hate that people simply refuse to acknowledge that the Hawks have been hit the hardest of anyone by injuries this year. If it is such a big deal for the Saints to win with 7 out (against a team with 9 out!), then why is it wrong to say the Hawks poor season has been, largely, as a result of its injuries. Wow, Adelaide was missing a key defender!!!! Oh my goodness, how did they ever shut down a Hawks side without Roughead, Williams, Dew, Boyle and Thorp! I have new found respect for the Crows now! Now, run along to grade 3 and work on those English skills. |
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| BTW, I had congratulated the Crows and said they were better than us BEFORE I responded to Yars' claims about Hawthorn. I hope it didn't sound like I wasn't giving them credit. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Oh hawks are losing cause of injuries,thats why lol. Thats just a sad excuse. Cats have been decimated all year, and have still found ways to win. Yes saint kilda won with a lot of key guys out for one game. But could they do it week in week out like the cats hav had to? Im not so sure. Hawthorn were playing as many as 16/22 of its premeirship side just a few weeks ago. So excuses are just that. Adelaide had there key defender out to, AND where in melbourne. People are just saw losers. When carlton beat us last week, i must have heard the theme song sung to me 20 times, lol. Even at the gym people were egging me up. Lol, but its good fun, i just tell em see u in the finals......if u survive that long. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| I wonder when rbrown will arrive and post his thoughts on why Hawthorn are struggling... Why can't you be here when the Hawks lose rbrown?? You, fitz and bluemurphy take your time to post after a loss. No one likes their team losing but that's life so hope to see you on here sometime today... Decided to go have a look at Port v Cardboard so hopefully you have posted something by the time i get home rbrown.. Bye..... |
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| Just how bad are the Hawks... Crows had key players out too plus the Hawks had 3 extra men as they led the frees 29-16.. |
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| collo, richo's gripe with Buddy isn't because of what he has or hasn't achieved, its brownoz who comes on here stating that Buddy is the best player in the game, greatest player ever, that he is the best ff & later the best ever chf etc. Not many people here actually have issues with the Hawks or Buddy, just issues with brownoz and his constant sh!t talk. I agree with you about not judging Buddy compared with others just yet, he is only 21 so wait another 10yrs and then see how he rates. Its brownoz you need to explain that to, because he is the one who doesn't understand that. Regarding Richo & his b&f, he won it in 2007, Deledio won it last yr. |
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| And i think we are failing to credit how well the Crows played. I wish the Hawks had taken the points but they just came up against a better,more committed team who made more of their chances and made less mistakes. I think too many discredit the winners and instead focus on the team that loses and how they had their chances to win and blew it! | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| To Richo 12_12. Mate i love the way Richo plays and the passion he plays with footy but please, he is a champion but not a legend!! Buddy is 21,has a lot to learn,has many pre seasons ahead of him,will mature as a footballer and just might be a legend,champion and great footballer but we are all guessing that that might happen so please dont judge him up against a guy who had a very good career in an ordinairy side for most of his career,who has kicked,i'm guessing 700-800 goals and has only won one BF and that was last year! Buddy has 300 or so goals to date,a BF,a premiership,a Coleman medal,has kicked 100 goals in a season. Not bad for a 21yo that conservatively has 5 to 12 years ahead of him. So judge him when he has finished and then compare him to Richo and then we will see who is a "legend and champion" ?! I'll guess this though i'm sure Buddy has three things Richo would love to have!! | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| seems their game plan is too detailed and inflexible - how often do the planets align in footy? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| When your backline is made up of smaller and second string players, going one on one against the better attacking teams is very risky esp if the opposition KPF gets on top early. Your defence is cut to shreds | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| nye, has Clarko stuck with the rolling zone? In the match against Freo earlier this yr it appeared that the Hawks went more one on one in the contests and I thought that was one of their better games for the yr, made the players accountable defensively which is what is needed when you are missing regular players. Any reason why he wouldn't have stuck with that game plan for more games because it would surely be easier to implement considering the Hawks situation then the rolling zone. |
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| Fire up nye! That is a big call about your inuries. It is a very very subjective topic and I am sure there would plenty at Geelong who would disagree with you. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Adelaide more disciplined, more skilled and more desperate last night. Good win. Congrats to the crows. |
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