By: johnny_wiseguy
15/04/2008
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For a few brave scientists have started claiming that our memories and characters are encoded not just in our brain, but throughout our entire body.
Consciousness, they claim, is created by every living cell in the body acting in concert.
They argue, in effect, that our hearts, livers and every single organ in the body stores our memories, drives our emotions and imbues us with our own individual characters. Our whole body, they believe, is the seat of the soul; not just the brain.
And if any of these organs should be transplanted into another person, parts of these memories - perhaps even elements of the soul - might also be transferred.
There are now more than 70 documented cases similar to Sonny's, where transplant patients have taken on some of the personality traits of the organ donors.
Professor Gary Schwartz and his co-workers at the University of Arizona have documented numerous seemingly inexplicable experiences similar to Sonny's. And every single one is a direct challenge to the medical status quo.
In one celebrated case uncovered by Professor Schwartz's team, an 18-year-old boy who wrote poetry, played music and composed songs was killed in a car crash. A year after he died, his parents came across a tape of a song he had written, entitled, Danny, My Heart Is Yours.
In his haunting lyrics, the boy sang about how he felt destined to die and donate his heart. After his death, his heart was transplanted into an 18-year-old girl - named Danielle.
When the boy's parents met Danielle, they played some of his music and she, despite never having heard the song before, knew the words and was able to complete the lyrics.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/new s/news.html?in_article_id=558271&in_page_id=1770 |
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By: szuregotjeanz
15/04/2008
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So cool , Johnny.........kewel thread. I'm into it totally
I have known about this 'thing' for some time now......find it fascinating.......sort of supports the theory that " we are connected to everything; we are part of the whole, as well as all of the whole".
That is not worded very aptly, sorry, my brain is on 'hibernate', but I'm sure all my cells know what I'm trying to s..ay........hehe
I saw a documentary about transplant patients who developed the donars likes, even accents. Just fantastic. |
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By: reidsays
15/04/2008
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very timely wiseguy:)
fascinating isn't it!
once it was believed that we thought with our hearts, that 'bleeding the veins' would cure illness for our blood was our lifeforce........on and on it goes....
..we learn more and more about ourselves and how we operate....
is consciousness the whole kit and kaboodle together?
the many parts held in an individual universe?
regards
(and to jeannz) |
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By: lisajones35
16/04/2008
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Consciousness, they claim, is created by every living cell in the body acting in concert.
They argue, in effect, that our hearts, livers and every single organ in the body stores our memories, drives our emotions and imbues us with our own individual characters. Our whole body, they believe, is the seat of the soul; not just the brain.
I myself have always thought this actually. |
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By: oggster8606
16/04/2008
12:49 am Yahoo! Profile:
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"Professor Gary Schwartz and his co-workers at the University of Arizona have documented numerous seemingly inexplicable experiences similar to Sonny's. And every single one is a direct challenge to the medical status quo."
Is this the same Professor Gary Schwartz that wrote "The G.O.D. Experiments: How Science Is Discovering God In Everything, Including Us"?
The same Professor Gary Schwartz who's book about 'psychic' Allison DuBois was described by DuBois herself as a "feeble attempt to cash in"?
The same Professor Gary Schwartz whose research methodology is constantly being questioned?
Here's the esteemed Prof himself...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drrciHKm7TU
Why is it that these kind of stories usually lead back to some extremely questionable characters? |
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By: felixq78
16/04/2008
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Jung wrote about the collective unconscious where every mind or soul/spirit (call it what you will) shares concepts or ideas.Archetypes I think he called them. He had this idea that the universe or god or the great spirit has been totally unaware of itself through the ages but nowadays it is developing consciousness with us or as we are becoming aware of our consiousness it is also doing the same.
Every living creature is inexorably linked for eternity.
What Christ (the great mystic and philosopher) meant when he referred to the "Kingdom of heaven" was that heaven wasn't a place but a state of mind or spiritual perfection.
No-one gets there or reaches that state of perfect peace until we all do. We are ONE. Everyone who has tripped knows that fact we've all experienced it. |
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By: szuregotjeanz
16/04/2008
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Ah, Oggy, the eternal sceptic.....
Felix78.....I love your post....I totally agree with you!
(are you the same "felix" from ages ago?....prolly?, if so, HI!..LTNS..)
Regards to Oggy (must I call you Mr. Ogg?), Reids, Johnny, Lisa, et al....
This I SO agree on-""...Everyone who has tripped knows that fact we've all experienced it.""
Yeah, I figured it out at about age 17........gawwd, today's teens seem so shallow!....so materialistic, not seeking for anything but the latest fashion.
Perhaps my experiments with mind altering drugs when a teen has led me on my lifetime spiritual quest.......it is not a bad thing. (advised my kid to try drugs, - she hates them now......perhaps reverse psychology is a good deterrent for child-rearing?) |
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By: johnny_wiseguy
16/04/2008
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Oh, fiddle faddle it's that pesky heckler from the peanut gallery, Orgsta! Security?! Security?!...
<<Why is it that these kind of stories usually lead back to some extremely questionable characters?>>
Usually? Or is that just your insertion? There are many with impeccable credentials and characters. Then again that might just be my insertion...Easy to slip one in either way, isn't it? :P
And attacking Schwartz character doesn't go one iota to dismissing the veracity of the phenomenon.
In any case, this phenomenon is not carried on the lonely back of Gary Schwartz. It has been popping up all over the world. Medicos in China are even doing a study on liver transplant patients to see if there's any merit in the claims coming from claims of donor recipients from over there.
It seems that medical researchers are open to following up donor recipient claims but our friend, Orgsta, once again, KNOWS that it can't be. Maybe such researchers should just save time and defer to our oracle from the peanut gallery... Well, if security does its job, they'll have to meet him outside in the carpark.. :D |
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By: felixq78
16/04/2008
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Jung wrote about the collective unconscious where every mind or soul/spirit (call it what you will) shares concepts or ideas.Archetypes I think he called them. He had this idea that the universe or god or the great spirit has been totally unaware of itself through the ages but nowadays it is developing consciousness with us or as we are becoming aware of our consiouscness it is also doing the same.
Every living creature is inexorably linked for eternity.
What Christ (the great mystic and philosopher) meant when he referred to the "Kingdom of heaven" was that heaven wasn't a place but a state of mind or spiritual perfection.
No-one gets there or reaches that state of perfect peace until we all do. We are ONE. Everyone who has tripped knows that fact we've all experienced it. |
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By: wadejohn75
16/04/2008
8:55 am Yahoo! Profile:
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WHAT IF:
40 days without food, only water, is not the exact medical formula for ridding ourselves of our conscious natural existence and entering into our supernatural subconscious existence?
Or a tab of Purple Haze (magic mushrooms, mescaline ...) will get us there with no preparation and unprepared and unskilled for the experience and create a psychosis of not understanding. |
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By: reidsays
16/04/2008
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wadejohn...."Or a tab of Purple Haze (magic mushrooms, mescaline ...) will get us there with no preparation and unprepared and unskilled for the experience and create a psychosis of not understanding."
exactly why you need a guide when you first take any of those mind altering substances....it is not a funny social game as so many in that era thought....guys boasting about the amount they took and dropping a few in the middle of the pub as their first timer!!!.....they spoiled it for the others by their absurd extremity, dropping off like flies cause they had no idea how to handle it:(
these 'trips into the subconscious domain' were broken through by many - at a time the 'frontal existence' was considered all and a concrete wall often lay betwixt the two...
same does happen through lack of food - termed hallucinations and considered false imaginings yet perhaps simply 'in another world'
that reverse psychology jeannz mentioned with her daughter?....i encouraged mine not to partake, that she had no need of external additives as all was in the body naturally and better to make use of it that way....she would brazenly tell all, that teenagers rebel so having a mother who took drugs was being a fantastic parent, cause she rebelled and went straight:)O
maybe why these later generations aren't interested...or perhaps they are there naturally (since the barrier was broken previously) and the oldies just don't notice what is behind the facade?
interesting theory that all are one and only when all reach that 'certain point' can it be done...never heard THAT one before!!!
one wonders where the 'orgstra' went on his many escapades with drugs.....perhaps the concrete wall is so thick that he hasn't penetrated beyond the perimeter yet...or he simply partook of the 'pleasurable'ones :P |
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By: wadejohn75
16/04/2008
2:53 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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Marianne Faithful:
I was there when Jan and Liford sang,
First to feel the cold Alaskan white man,
First to take a trip on LSD,
First to vote for Roosevelt back in '33.
...
Yes I've seen it, yes I've seen it,
And deep inside you're brave,
You know I mean it, yes I mean it. |
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By: szuregotjeanz
16/04/2008
10:05 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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Very interesting points in your last post, Reids!
""...maybe why these later generations aren't interested...or perhaps they are there naturally (since the barrier was broken previously) and the oldies just don't notice what is behind the facade?""
HHhhhhmmmmmm, wishful thinking, but, I don't think so, no, not at all!.........I would LIKE it to be that way, but, Reids, although we are of similar age, my daughter is in the generation after your daughter......am old enough to be her grandma! |
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By: reidsays
17/04/2008
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jeanzz...approx. 12 years between the two daughters..
knowledge of more is a given as so much that was once hidden is now out in the open....(perhaps too much 'in your face')...but also maybe the world is more crowded and competitive and not much time for 'personally seeking or revealing'????
our generation was very much about individuality and 'being out there'???
all i do know is that all generations have their youthful ideals and they are usually all shattered:( |
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By: xxx_metal_kitty_xxx
17/04/2008
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| The ancient Egyptians knew this. They would take extreme care in preserving the internal organs for burial. Egyptians were master scientists and herbalists. Read the Book of the Dead sometime. |
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By: reidsays
17/04/2008
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| just read recently that the egyptians considered the mind was in the heart and during mummification was drawn out through the nose and discarded.....as a pusy substance of no consequence???? |
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By: reidsays
17/04/2008
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the concept of 'letting the body speak its mind' reflects the interconnectedness....
cravings for certain foods can be the bodies need for same......(apart from addictions of course!)....if lacking in iron and vegetarian..cravings for chickpeas and cashew nuts....can indicate a lack of iron and once the body levels are fine the cravings stop...
'psycho-neuro-immunology' is exploring the links between the mind and the body... it is discovering that not only does the mind speak to the body through neuropeptides, but the body speaks to the mind. when your pancreas is functionally happily it sends signals to the brain and visa versa...
as there as receptor sites for these neuropeptides throughout the body, we can say that our cells are part of an intelligence which happens to be floating in the body... |
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By: reidsays
17/04/2008
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"Our whole body, they believe, is the seat of the soul; not just the brain.""
hehe...told you so:P
always say the intellect is a tool to be used (but an incredibly valid tool!!!!)?
but but but......may well be that the heart is 'the seat of the soul' since without it pumping nutrients to every part of the body they would die??? |
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By: wadejohn75
17/04/2008
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I think our bodies are educated by robotic awareness of the necessities of existence.
Similar in theme to, "necessity is the mother of invention". |
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By: oggster8606
17/04/2008
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"one wonders where the 'orgstra' went on his many escapades with drugs.....perhaps the concrete wall is so thick that he hasn't penetrated beyond the perimeter yet...or he simply partook of the 'pleasurable'ones :P"
Of course I only took - or at least stuck with - the 'pleasurable ones'. I'm only in it for the fun.
There's about as much insightfulness in drugs as what's in my left shoe. If I have to deal with something or I'm trying to gain an understanding about something (including gaining an understanding of myself) then I'll do it straight thanks. |
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By: steve_ropa
17/04/2008
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>>>For a few brave scientists have started claiming that our memories and characters are encoded not just in our brain, but throughout our entire body.<<<
isnt it natural for a d i c k to have a memory??? |
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By: reidsays
17/04/2008
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oggster...."There's about as much insightfulness in drugs as what's in my left shoe. If I have to deal with something or I'm trying to gain an understanding about something (including gaining an understanding of myself) then I'll do it straight thanks."
well oggster..i do believe that the new high for those people who have loyally stuck to drugs from the 70s era...IS going straight!!!!
30 plus years of the same old thing every day?
...a healthy change is as good as a drug high in that context!
but to say there is no insightfulness in many of nature's treasures?....disagree entirely...
.the old shamans of yesteryear used certain drugs to enter the spiritual dimension....(carlos castaneda books were very popular with the LSD culture...'tales of power' 'the fire from within' are a few).
...alan w watts was another and a quote 'hostility to nature is characteristic of our culture, and is the root of our personal anxiety and loneliness, our fear of feeling, and our reluctance to love' ('nature, man and woman'......'the way of zen'..)
yet, as with anything - it depends on the enquiring mind of the user as to where the 'additive takes you'....many using LSD used it as a party drug rather than an exploration into the deeper world beneath our conscious reality.
with myself - LSD was the only drug strong enough to break through the concrete wall...at an age when my mind had already developed...under a strict regime.....at 19.
perhaps you are such an earthy creature that the intellect and the consciousness beyond is of no interest to you?
it takes all sorts to make a world....such is the diversity of humanity.
cheers
reid
any young developing mind partaking in drugs is an unnecessary burden i would think.. |
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By: alfonso_daspanna
17/04/2008
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| Brings back memories from the 60's Hippy Daze...Young Americans getting off the aircraft in India,,waving cheque books,,and looking where they could get their Diploma of Consciousness !!!! ha ha ha |
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By: onethousandfold
17/04/2008
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| beats me!!!!!!!!!!! |
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By: szuregotjeanz
18/04/2008
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""one wonders where the 'orgstra' went on his many escapades with drugs.....perhaps the concrete wall is so thick that he hasn't penetrated beyond the perimeter yet...or he simply partook of the 'pleasurable'ones :P""
Teehee, Reids, you certainly know how to word things in a impartial way.....non- threatening.
I think 'orgsta' is pretty quick 'on the ball', pretty nice fella, oops, mean BLOKE.....even tho he wanders not into the universe within. |
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