By: dcbuz
2/05/2008
4:16 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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| Can anyone tell us why Diesel is more expensive than petrol in Australia. In most western countries Diesel is cheaper (by far!) than petrol as it costs a lot less to produce. So why is Australia ripping off the Diesel users by charging over 20 cents more per litre than petrol? Also it never comes down like petrol does! |
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By: tonegunman1
3/05/2008
7:51 am Yahoo! Profile:
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"Oils ain't oils" to borrow a phrase.
Oil after it comes out of the ground is fractionated into petrol, diesel, fuel oil, tar, kerosene, etc. You can crack some components into more usable fractions but there are limits. Different areas have oil made up with differing levels of components, eg "light sweet" and heavy.
Diesel oil is going up all over because bigger proportions of diesel cars are coming onto the roads especially in places like China. However they still have the same proportions of the barrel, greater demand, price goes up. |
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By: seereality
3/05/2008
9:30 am Yahoo! Profile:
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Lets make our own diesel - utilising German technology developed in the WW2 and since vastly improved by the South African company Sasol.
If you put into your search engine SASOL Sub54 you will get a very comprehensive proposal that describes the technology.
The point is, we can make synthetic diesel for less the $ 1.00 at the petrol station (presently Sasol produce the barrel of oil for about US30.00}.
More then 85% of the oil is controlled by about 5% of the population most in instable or war stricken countries.
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By: babygecko99
3/05/2008
10:35 am Yahoo! Profile:
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I thought Diesel was a by product! petrol costs more to produce as it needs to be refined!!!! but then Diesel is more economical...lasts longer!
Where i am it is 40 cents more a litre! |
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By: billlilyleemarie
3/05/2008
11:48 am Yahoo! Profile:
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| Look around at the amount of diesel 4wd/cars on the road then add in the trucks, mining idustries, railways ect. now add the fact that diesel is for the most part more economical and in the newer vehicals cleaner. Diesel is becoming the "premium" product for oil companys. |
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By: seek1mor
3/05/2008
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| Profiteering by the oil companies. Many years ago diesel was the cheaper fuel to drive large motors. When car manufacturers turned out more and more smaller motors the oil companies took advantage and raised the price. Sheer greed. |
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By: billlilyleemarie
3/05/2008
12:10 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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| Yep thats what I was getting at |
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By: seereality
3/05/2008
5:45 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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The writing is on the wall - the world is moving away from fossil fuels, it will take a little while but the signals are set for carbon reduction.
Electric cars that drive 100 km for 25 cents are in principle available, unfortunately the Australian government is also a fossil fuel supplier and that is one reason it is very difficult to get an electric car on the road in Australia.
However, wind solar and specifically nuclear power is getting now first priorities energy wise.
So this is it, the oil companies are going for broke, the oil is running out and the demand will diminish over the next 20 to 30 year.
The world is presently almost 100% reliant on fossil fuel, so the oil companies will take as much as they can for as long as they can.
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By: billlilyleemarie
3/05/2008
5:51 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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| Not just australia, car companies in general. I would hazzard a guess and say that all the major car companies have the technology to build vehicals that arnt reliant on fossil fuels yet the only "green" vehicals on the roads are overpriced hybrids. Could it be - shock horror - that the automotive industy is in the pockets of the oil companies? |
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By: seereality
4/05/2008
11:19 am Yahoo! Profile:
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From an engineering point of view, electric cars are built from fewer parts then petrol cars so produced on a production line they should be less costly.
From the operational point of view, electric cars are not only more fuel efficient they also convert waste energy produced by going down hill or breaking back into electric energy and so a medium size car powered by the electric grid would drive 100 km for 25 cents.
Electric cars do not need a service as often as petrol driven cars, a minor service might be required after 100,000 km. No oil change, no tune ups required. The cars would also have a longer live expectancy, so fewer cars would be soled ultimately.
But the government would loose all the tax from selling petrol, getting your cars serviced, buying stuff for your engine and they have no idea how to compensate the budget for the lost revenues.
Most car service places, m.u.ffler and brake replacement would go out of business - it is quite a paradigm shift in technology.
This is very good for the customer but bad for the government, the oil companies and the car companies.
But before we have all electric cars we require fuel for what we have got - so lets make our own fuel for what we have got on our roads - after that we still need diesel for air planes (aviation fuel is similar to diesel), trucks, earth moving machines and the army.
So building a synthetic fuel pant is not a waste of time - this plant can make also row materials for plastics and fertilizer.
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By: billlilyleemarie
4/05/2008
12:14 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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yes I was refering to alternative fuels- not electric - that wouldnt have as big an impact on the automotive industry. Bmw I think have a hydrogen powered car in production, but again its expensive and hydrogen isnt exactly easy to get in a bottle. If Bmw have the technology
you can bet that they all have it |
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By: seereality
4/05/2008
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Hydrogen for fuel cells which produce electric current like stored in a battery is very efficient but presently an expensive technology.
Using hydrogen directly is not efficient and is in my opinion a technology outdated by new battery technology.
There is a new car battery plant build presently that will produce the newly developed lithium car batteries - the recharge in 10 to 20 minute, range about 200km for a medium car.
The food shortage created by the bio-fuel will ultimately prohibit the use of food products being converted into bio-fuels or farmland being used to plant specific fuel crops;
an idea that was dead in the water from the start, I remember somebody calculated that there was not enough farm land in England to pant enough for what is used in Brittan that should have been a warning.
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By: billlilyleemarie
4/05/2008
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| fair enough but biodeisel can but made from just about any thing, food leftovers, used cooking oils ect kind of like moonshine. How many homes eat potatoes every day and throw away the peels? |
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By: seereality
4/05/2008
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Only large bio conversion plants are efficient.
But there is a new technology developed in the US that converts domestic waste into oil by a process called Thermal depolymerization (TDP).
Unfortunately, it is not cheap to purchase and operate the equipment but it will do two things, get rid of rubbish and make oil.
http://www.changingworldtech.com/who/index.asp
That will not solve the oil supply problem but it would be beneficial in many ways as it gets rid of a lot of problem materials while it is making oil.
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By: billlilyleemarie
4/05/2008
6:14 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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| think I might check that out thanks |
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By: seereality
4/05/2008
6:17 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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More info on this new technology - it only becomes economical because of the oil price.
http://www.changingworldtech.com/press_room/index. asp?id=24
CWT's Thermal Conversion Process (TCP) technology is the first commercially viable method of reforming organic waste into oil.
The company's Renewable Environmental Solutions subsidiary can convert approximately 250 tons/day of turkey offal and fats into approximately 20,000 gallons of a renewable diesel fuel oil and valuable fertilizer products.
Local industrial customers use the renewable diesel fuel oil to hedge against rising energy prices and as a way to reduce their fossil fuel consumption and carbon emissions.
Local farmers are also applying fertilizer to minimize their escalating costs and a way to secure a local supply.
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By: seereality
4/05/2008
6:17 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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| let me know what you think. |
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By: billlilyleemarie
4/05/2008
6:37 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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How come everybody isnt looking into this? I have a bit of background in the meat industry and the amount of biproducts that are turned into blood and bone is staggering. The article only mentions beef and pork aside from poultry but I presume that mutton waste would be the same. Believe me when I say there is nothin wasted on an animal carcass in a meatworks but it is generally just turned to fertalisers this process creates both, awesome.
Exspensive or not somebody needs to start building these plants and now |
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By: seereality
4/05/2008
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billlilyleemarie I am all for this is suggested it to our local government 2 year ago - they are interested but everything takes to long.
The equipment can process domestic rubbish, computer circuit boards mobile phones together with everything else you find in domestic rubbish.
Naturally it depends on what you put in of what you get out.
Lot of animal waste and plastics or other oil based material make a lot of oil.
If you process mobile phones, it will remove all the plastics and will give you oil and a mix of metals.
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By: billlilyleemarie
4/05/2008
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| Maybe its about the price, but as you know technology is only expensive until it becomes the norm. True it may take a while but hopefully it,ll catch on |
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By: seereality
5/05/2008
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billlilyleemarie the problem with this new technology is similar then introducing electric cars.
Recycling and waste disposal is big business.
You probably pay with your council rights that your recycling bins are picket up and at no cost to the recycling plant are delivered there. In some cities this can burn a lot of diesel fuel to get the recycling material to the recyclers.
The recycling plant receives also usually extra funds to operate the plant and they all have contracts for many years and have a licence for recycling that forces independent operators to use the licence recycler.
Very large companies do run these operations now and they have no interest in anybody bringing in some new technology that will make there business redundant.
If it comes to domestic waste, it is in a lot of cases also a private or semi private org.a.ni.sation that are operating the local tip and the funny part is, despite all the talk about not disposing the waste in that way they show little interest in loosing a revenue producing enterprise.
This equipment processes any waste including bio contaminated hospital waste and oil from cars or industrial, also grease and so on. This makes this technology an even bigger threat to well established recyclers or collectors that will do what ever possible to stop this technology from coming to Australia.
This technology would be so much simpler then what is done now - in principle you can put everything in one bin and all the waste is processed so that it can be reused.
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By: bicko22938
5/05/2008
3:36 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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Yes and I think in Australia motorists really are coming off second best. There can be no doubt whatsoever that the government is capitalising where it can. I live in Thailand. Diesel in this country is the equivalent of about AU$1.00 per litre and petrol is 15% higher in price. Australia does produce and refine some of it's fossil fuel requirements so the answer is pretty obvious. Greed is an insidious business.
We import all of our fuel but it is still considerably cheaper then in Auatralia. Bio-fuel mixes are increasingly available at marginally lower prices. |
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By: carlb01069
5/05/2008
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| Hey mate I have written emails to channel 7 and channel 9 regarding this issue and as well the ACCC and have not recieved 1 reply. We are a minority to what i can see. What happened to years ago when deisel was ALWAYS cheaper than unleaeded regular nd premuim?? Why is deisel so expensives when is is a BYE PRODUCT OF MAKING UNLEADED FUEL?? These questions ive tried too raise with previous mentioned people to no response.. They can do what they want with deisel and they dont dont care the major television people and also the ACCC what do we do????? |
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By: carlb01069
5/05/2008
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| And for bio deseil i wouldnt touch it for quids trucking companys I no of that had tried bio deisel have had to rebuild motors and cost them more in that and break downs from fuel blockages and rebuild injector pumps and replace injectors... |
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By: tonegunman1
6/05/2008
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Everyone has got to be a bit realistic. Oil is finite and it's going to run out (for you and me anyway) some time soon. The use of oil has never been sustainable.
If our grandkids get to drive cars they won't know what petrol or diesel is. |
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