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| Hi, I have just found this site by accident. I also have a 7 yr old daughter who has always soiled herself, and yes, she still bedwets most nights as well. I have just finished her 'movicol half' clean-out... and it has actually made her bowels worse! She now seems to lack the bowel muscle strength to push a stool out, whereas she didnt have that problem before. So now she has constipation so bad that she bleeds with a movement. Has anyone else had this difficulty? I also wanted to say that it's nice to know there are other people out there who can fully understand the day to day frustrations that go with this disorder... I had no idea it was a fairly common problem, and that so many others are going through it as well. I think airing the problems and 'brainstorming' some solutions is fantastic.! Thank-you all for just being here!! Cheers, Sandi |
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| I think you need to get another xray done. I've had a paed feel my sons tummy and say that it felt normal but luckily he requested an xray to be sure and he was completely full right up under his ribs on both sides! Your son might be passing lots of bits during the day but it could be just the lucky bits that managed to break away from a larger mass further up. I too did the chiro thing with no luck. However the change in diet is working beautifully for my son - and my daughter who is older and had more stretching of the muscles/ nerve loss just has trouble holding onto it if the stool is a bit looser. Has anyone else done the fructose test yet? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Hi Jowelch69 I am so glad you have found us, part of dealing with this problem as parents is being able to muster the energy to constantly face the daily nagging/cleanups/battles etc with childeren. Its particularly hard when none of your family/friends really understand. But take heart that we all do, and when you are feeling really pushed, we are the ones you can tell your frustrations and worst fears to without judging. THere is great advice on this page, but what works for one child may not work for another. My son is 10 and half and we are still coping. ABout a month ago I had a meltdown when we went through a particular bad week and it was such a relief to be able to post on this message baord and "vent". It will get better, My son was diagnosed 6 years ago and we have gone from several accidents a day , to generally only one if it happens, and sometimes it is only small. We are current in a good cycle. A supportive school is a must - I was very careful shopping for school I spoke with a prep teacher at a school and I stil remember the look of horror on the prep teachers face when I told her about my son, it didnt matter what the school said - her face let me know this was not the right choice for him. One local primary school had only about 150 students, and when I told both the principle and prep teachers - they seemed unconcerned, straight away they said would work with me in any way they could. He is now in grade five there and I have always had their support, they understood the days we came late, if they had to ring me it was matter of fact - no judgement, and when you are constantly judging yourself and your child it has been a blessing to have such support at school. One day, it will get better, but perhaps not in the time frame the experts will tell you - we were told by one specialist that it he would be "cured" by the time he was 7. Be positive with him as much as you can, and when you need to scream.... scream with us...we will understand. |
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| Hi Ireadlabels, He did have an xray about 3 years ago but it didn't look too bad. We are currently living in Kalgoorlie WA but are moving back to NSW in July. I think I will have more luck with the school back home as it is only small and they know us there. I don't think he has the fructos malabsorption. I think he is doing this as a habit as never has been constipated. I went to a body talk practitioner and she feels that his not wanting to go to the toilet relates back to an incident in June 2003 (apparently this info is stored in organs and they can read this through the body) and the memory is stored in his colon. I had to think about what was happening at this time and realised it was when I went back to work. It also corresponds to when we were trying to toilet train him, so he never got trained. I have only had 1 session with her as she only comes up from Margaret River once every 6 weeks. She has also worked on his behaviour and along with the hypnotherapy, that has improved a little. Does anyone else have enco without being constipated? |
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| Hi Elmo, I have been taking my 7 year old to the chiro on and off for about 18 months now and it hasn't helped at all. He does have pelvic displacement which I thought might be the cause of the problem but even when it is put back in there is no change. I initially heard chiro can help with enco sometimes from my brother who is a chiro. He was really disappointed it didn't work too. I have recently started hypnotherapy but haven't seen any changes. I too am sick of pooey smells in the home, car etc. We can't go to the movies or anywhere else for a few hours without an accident. This has effected our social life considerably as even our friends don't understand and don't want him around as he stinks out their lounges! I am glad I found this site today as at least I have a name now for the problem. This might help others be a bit more sympathetic as well! After reading through these posts I have a few more ideas I can try. Does anyone else have trouble with bed wetting as well? Regards, Jo |
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| Hi Jowel, Has your son been xrayed? My children's previous school used to make my 7yr old daughter clean herself up. She would have to go back to class with poo on her clothes. We changed schools straight away. Obviously we were very lucky to have that option. It's a really good idea to show the teachers some of the other posts. Does your school have a staffed 1st aid room. If so try and get them on side and supportive of your son. If they make him feel welcome to go there he can just use a code word with the teacher and leave the class to get help. Have you read back far enough to see my posts on Fructose Malabsorption? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Hi Soxsoxy, My son is the same age and is in year 2 also. I don't think he has ever had constipation though. The doctors have prescribed vaious things for him like parachoc and movicol but these don't seem to make any difference. When he was a baby and up to about 3-4 years old he would sometimes go about 8 times a day! Now he still seems to have between 2 and 5 accidents a day and he is 7. They aren't always little either. He just refuses to use the toilet at all and no matter how much I try to encourage him he just doesn't want to go. I have recently tried hypnotherapy with him and she said he really doesn't know why he doesn't want to go. He says he will try, I think alot of the time he says things to appease us, and just doesn't. He also denies he's had an accident as I think he feels he will get into trouble and is quite happy to sit in it all day. I have great trouble trying to get him to change himself and wants me to help. I tell him I am helping him by making him do it! I don't know what to do at school. His teacher isn't very understanding and he is always in trouble. We are always having meetings and apparently other parents are starting to complain about the smell in the class room. Other than home schooling, which I don't think would be good for him socially, I don't know what to suggest. Does anyone else have any ideas about how to approach this with the education department? Regards, Jo |
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| Hi Soxsoxy, My son is the same age and is in year 2 also. I don't think he has ever had constipation though. The doctors have prescribed vaious things for him like parachoc and movicol but these don't seem to make any difference. When he was a baby and up to about 3-4 years old he would sometimes go about 8 times a day! Now he still seems to have between 2 and 5 accidents a day and he is 7. They aren't always little either. He just refuses to use the toilet at all and no matter how much I try to encourage him he just doesn't want to go. I have recently tried hypnotherapy with him and she said he really doesn't know why he doesn't want to go. He says he will try, I think alot of the time he says things to appease us, and just doesn't. He also denies he's had an accident as I think he feels he will get into trouble and is quite happy to sit in it all day. I have great trouble trying to get him to change himself and wants me to help. I tell him I am helping him by making him do it! I don't know what to do at school. His teacher isn't very understanding and he is always in trouble. We are always having meetings and apparently other parents are starting to complain about the smell in the class room. Other than home schooling, which I don't think would be good for him socially, I don't know what to suggest. Does anyone else have any ideas about how to approach this with the education department? Regards, Jo |
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| Hi, This is my first time on this site and am in the same state as you all. I also have a 7 year old boy who seems to fit the typical profile. We have been battling this problem for his whole life. He never seemed to pass the toilet training. We have tried everything from local doctors, continence clinic, school councillors, paediatricians, chiropractors, body talk practicioner and now hypnotherapy. Nothing has worked! We've tried rewards, punishments, star charts, laxatives and diet changes. I can only live in hope that one day he will decide he doesn't want to be stinky anymore!! I am having a lot of trouble with him at school and am always having to go to see his teacher about the problem but I don't think she believes that we have tried everything. I just don't know what to tell her anymore. It is also effecting his behaviour as he is getting into trouble for annoying other children. He says they annoy him but the teacher says it is the other way around. I don't know what to think, he does lie a lot (they say this is a sign of intelligence!). He doesn't have any trouble with his school work and seems physically fine, he was an IVF baby though and I was wondering if anyone else's child is. I just want him to be normal and have friends which at the moment is an issue. I am going to print off some of the posts on here to show his teacher as I don't think she realises other people are going through this as well. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Soxoxy I think you are right, even at 4 1/2 I don't think he does it to piss me off either. He seems okay with it all and yes I think I'm wasting a lot of energy worrying about it and how society sees him. You story has made me see that maybe I should just ignore it and let him be who he is. I believe him when he tells me he can't feel it and I've asked if the kids tease him and he has said no, so I asked the carers and they also said no. Thanks again, maybe I'll try the no pants thing, although unlike his younger brother, he likes to have clothes on! | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Hi bundie....I can relate to your story. My daughter didn't soil once at Kindergarten all year. And even in grade 1 & 2..it's been very rare at school..95% of her soiling is at home or away from school. She says she's never been teased...and I believe her. My daughter has a very laid back, nonchalant personality. For example...she had her last dance class yesterday and she was ready to do her dance performance and I realized her pants were on backwards (she's 8 years old)....but when I prompted her to go and change she refused and said "I don't care". She danced in front of a crowd of spectators really truly not caring that her pants were on backwards. She thoroughly enjoyed performing and had smile on her face the entire time. If anyone else noticed her pants were on backwards, she didn't care one bit. If her hair is not combed, if her face is dirty, and she has dried stool in her pants she is happy and life is good for her. Everyone still likes her and she has lots of friends. So who really has the problem??? It always ends up being me who is upset and stressed. The other thing that baffled us from day 1 is the fact that when she has a bare bum, she will go to the toilet on her own. Yet when she has anything touching her bum, she soils. Even yesterday, she came home after school and took her pants off. She had a samll round lump of stool in her undies which fell out. Within 10 minutes of being at home with no undies on, she had a bowel movement on the toilet. When I asked her if she felt it, she said "no". So, I need to accept the fact that she doesn't want to talk about it with me and probably never will. I can assume many things and try to figure it out, but I'm realizing that I use up a lot of valuable energy which only leaves me (not my daughter) feeling stressed and tired. Yes, Encopresis is a physical problem, but there's an unconscious element of control as well. I don't believe my daughter does it consciously to piss me off. |
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| Funny you should talk about developmental delays because I've also thought it may have something to do with it. My son was premature and has also been delayed in most things he's done ie walking, talking etc. So I was always just hoping this was another one that was going to be on his time. But some days I'm not sure. Maybe my frustration (which I've tried to really hide in the past few weeks) since reading all the postings hasn't helped. I'm trying to be really positive for him. I certainly don't make a big deal out of it and it seems he has some control because he only has been doing it at home and he spends 4 days a week in daycare. They have been really great and don't mind, especially since I gave the problem a name. But they haven't had to deal with it. I'm just really concerned for him if we haven't got it sorted out before he starts school next year. He is really sensitive and quite and I'm not sure he'd cope with people teasing him. Thanks again I'm really happy I've found support from parents who have been or are going through a similar problem. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| He has had two successes in the toilet since seeing the doctor 2 weeks ago. The reward system doesn't seem to work, he gets bored really quickly. We have been getting him to sit on the toilet twice a day which is okay, but the biggest problem now is that he can sit for up to 15 minutes then get off and soil himself within a few minutes. He isn't trying to hide it now and actually comes and tells me or his daycare teachers, which I think is a good thing. I definitely will ask for an xray and to be referred to a specialist. My husband is of the opinion that our son is just lazy after the last few days so that makes it hard. Will try and keep positive and see where we go. Thanks for all the advice. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Questions, questions, questions. I'm not sure we will ever know the answers...completely. I have asked myself the exact same quesitions that you have posted....which reminds me that I'm not alone. My husband believes that there's also a developmental piece in that once our daughter has completely developementally matured (and that may take a few more years) her fear of being discovered will be stronger than her desire for avoidance. Currently...like you mentioned...her "desire for avoidance is stronger than her fear of being discovered". Until then....there's nothing, you, I or any medical professional can do to change that. My daughter has been late at every developmental stage of her life. For example, she was 19 months old before she walked. She was almost 4 years old before she could speak clearly...and she still doesn't speak super clearly. So we figure that she's totally on her own develomental time line...and when she's ready to mature....she will. I have to trust and have faith that it's all going to be OK. I have been working very hard to stay focused on the "bigger picture". I do believe too that there is a physical piece that is completely out of her control...and she will probably have to deal with this condition for the rest of her life. She was born with "slow motility" and less than perfect bowels. If she had luekemia or diebetes...I'm sure I would have all the same questions I have now...and in the end I would just have to accept it without ever knowing the answers. I remind myself to put as much energy into the solutions, rather than figuring out the answers to the whys....and to stay focused on my daughter's strengths....the very things I hear other parents say are their children's weaknesses. |
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| continued If he cant feel the actually "leakage" because of a lack of sensation in his bowel, what is the reasoning for not being able to tell he has BM in them. How much stronger is his desire for "avoidance" than his fear of being "discovered". Doesnt his jocks feel "uncomfortable", cant he smell - how can he think no one else will not smell. If his sister "lets go" in the car, he is the first to complain of the smell, and he is inclinded to go over the top with his offence. His accidents are extremely smelly, why doesnt he notice this smell. Why does he tell me he has had an accident sometimes, but not at other times. Why does he get changes sometimes but not at other times. We have been to two differnt psychologist over the years, but neither has been able to get any "real" answers. Both sent us down the path of "reward stickers" but these only worked in the short term and gave only minimal improvements. Again, why isnt the desire for a reward "we would give anything" to have his life clear of encopresis - enough to make him want to help himself. I want to understand so many of these "whys" and know I must frustrate my son by constantly asking when did you have the accident, did you have any warning, when you did go to the toilet did you feel it was a clean out, how much water, fruit etc did you have today. I tell him that I ask to try to find out anything that can help me help him. But this wont make my questioning any less "frustrating" to him. Unlike the 3 and 4 year olds who cant "describe" all their feelings etc - why cant my ten year old who can clearly explain his feelings on other matters - let me into his headspace - I just know that part of the solution is understanding what is going on in his mind - what is he thinking if he knows he has had an accident, and more importantly what is he thinking when he decides not to get changed. Does he think that the encopresis will never go away - so it doesnt matter what he does or doesnt do. |
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| Soxsoxy, many of the comments you make echo my own thoughts and fears. Our children have a condition that is "socially unnaceptable" by a majority of people (including our own families)and professionals can also misunderstand/misdiagnose and mistreat. Our own issues of frustration, bewildement, anger, fear and constant "anxiety" over when and where the next "accident" may occur and "who" might find out must surely add to the overwhelming burden our children are already carrying. It is no wonder that our children cope by ignoring rather than dealing with the problem, which in itself makes the problem bigger. Dealing with accidents is not treating or solving the problem. Alot of what we do is "managing" the accidents, "protecting" our children and "coping" with our own fears. A major part of the solution is to finally understand "why" and I mean the kids "why" rather than the professional speak ( yes i know its all about enlarged bowels, loss of sensation, compaction leading to leakage). After 6 years (my son is 10) I still dont fully understand "why". For example, Today after school I asked my son if he needed anything from home before we went to an afterschool activity, he had sports clothes in the car so he answered no, I suddenly remembered I had forgotten something and quickly pulled into home. As soon as we got out of the car - my son had that "expression" on his face. We raced inside, and he reached the bathroom with luckily only a small "mark". (what would have happened had we not gone home) The "why" is - what signals if any is his body getting, at some point he knew he had to go. Can he go from not needing to go, to urgently needing to go Often he can be very "windy" yet he still doesnt seem to equate this with a BM on the way. How much is he still hanging on, ignoring, or has no idea - can he have less than a minutes warning he has to go. Is it when he thinks that he cant make - he decides not to bother trying. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Hi bundie. You may want to request an xray for your son as well, if one hasn't been taken already. I have learned I need to be proactive with medical staff. The sooner your son is cleaned out, probably the better. My daughter too was 4 yr old when diagnosed with encopresis. In hindsight she needed to have a cleanout at age 4. Because I didn't have the knowledge I have now, she was 6 yr old before she had thorough cleanout. Without the xray, even the drs didn't realize how constipated she was. It was a bit traumatic for my duaghter as she needed to be hospitalized for 4 days with a nose tube, before it all came out. My daughter is 8 yr. old. and she has a bowel movement almost daily, (she never goes more than 2 days though). There is still some soiling, but not compared to what it used to be. The reason for my daughter's soiling, I believe, is for many reasons....hence the complicated process of finding effective solutions. As she gets older, she is learning to take more responsibility to clean herself up...since the encopresis is out of her control as well. And I'm realizing that I worry way more than my daughter does about the consequences....so when I can stay calm and take care of my own feelings...the soiling isn't that big of a problem. I think my daughter has always been more accepting of her problem than I have. My biggest goal is to not get into a power struggle with my daughter over toileting....I did that way too much from age 4-6 yr. I find that my daughter soils less too when the stress in our home is low and my relationship with her is positive. Our journey continues....one day at a time. |
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| Just found out 3 days ago that my hubbys sister has cealic disease and this is heridetary god I wish I knew this 10mths ago but my mother in law only just told me. Cealic disease left untreated can also lead to other problems such as lactose intolerance which I am thinking that this is probably whats happening as it is strange that it is happpening to all of my three boys. I have to be patient and what till my 4yr old has finished his tests and see what the problem actually is and in the meantime may take bubs to the Docs and get him on some lactose formula and prevent this from happening to him. Please look up CEALIC DISEASE as it is often left undiagnosed and untreated and who knows maybe your child has it too. I will keep everyone updated as I go along my little man had the lactulose test and I think the next one is lactose. Keep strong and I know how hard it is as I have 2 with this and hopefully I can prevent the third. |
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| Hi Bundie, Yes hon! You're not alone with this. I would go back to the Docs and tell him that your son has encopresis and request an appointment to see a specialist otherwise it will drag on and then your son may lose the feeling of having to push completely alternatively go and get some Movical half from your chemist and follow the instructions on fecal impaction. With my 3yr old it took him 4 days so just yesterday when he had the 'flush out'. My 4yr old has been sitting on the toilet but hasnt been for 4days - he is having his hydrogen breath tests done. My baby boy is a bit better on a different formula now he has soft poo instead of hard poo - not as much lactose in the newer one. All my boys experienced this as infants and I have some new information about what the problem could be that is leading to the boys encopresis. |
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| Hi Bundie and Welcome! Flush Out means either the child being admitted to hospital and having large amounts of liquid laxative (commonly movicol) administered by a nasal tube or using the movicol at home (movicol-half for children under 11) at a lower dosage. By "success" do you mean any bowel movement or a bowel movement that made it into the toilet? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Hi my 4 year old son has just been diagnosed and I was wondering how long it took before your doctor recommended the clean out. My son has been put on the granuals and it really hasn't made much difference, we have had 2 successes in over a week, is that normal? I'm just feeling really alone and lost with it all and don't know whether I should go back to the doctor and insist on the clean out, which by the way involves what????? My son is really sensitive about it all which makes it harder for me when I try and encourage him to sit on the toilet. Any strategies to help with that? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Thanks for the advice! My 4 yr old has had the flush out twice. About 3 wks ago was the last one and since then he has had a BM everyday retrained the bowels 3 times a day everyday but still has a bit of leakage but no where near as bad as it has been the smell has gone and it is a lighter brown colour as opposed to the real dark brown. I am doing the flushout right now with my 3 yr old as he still has the sensation to push just it hurts and I think he is scared to push because of this. Definately going to the doc's! Keep everyone updated. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Ok, so you're going to start the whole flush out then? I think you'd better do it for the 3 and 4 year old. I have know idea about the formula part. Although I did think babies on formula were meant to go more often than if they are on breastmilk? Definitely try and go to the doctor next week. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Hello IREADLABELS, Thanks for getting back to me. My 3yr old is getting very constipated. I noticed some skiddies in his jocks and he said it hurts to push out his poo. Then yesterday I noticed the poo stuck to his bottom it was dark and hard and that familiar gross smell. I haven't tried parachoc with him (didnt work for my 4yr old) just gave him his first drink of movical half this morning I am hoping that it's not the start of encopresis but my gut feeling is that it is. I havent had x-rays done for any of my boys. My 4yr old had one visit to the Paedatrician and he just said to come back in 6mths if I had any concerns or things werent getting better. I will see how my 3yr old goes and hopefully I have got on top of it before it gets worse. Both boys have always suffered with constipation but obvioulsy in time it gets worse and impacted. My nearly 12wk old is on formula and he gets constipated too (goes once or twice a week)and has huge poos when he does so I am definately going to take him to the Docs to get checked perhaps he is lactose intolerant. I am thinking perhaps it's Dairy related with my boys who knows until I have the tests performed for my 4yr old and then I will take it from there. |
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| Hello aspiring writer, Yes they both have fructose malabsorption. Intolerance is a completely different thing that is diagnosed in very young children and means that they can't have even the smallest amount of fructose in their diet. I think the statistics are like 1 in 100,000. It causes damage to internal organs not just the stomach and will eventually result in extreme illness if not diagnosed ie our kids would be very ill by now! For the first maybe 7 or 8 weeks of the diet I didn't need to use any laxatives on the kids at all. Now they have gradually started soiling again and as I said before I think this is from the amount of damage that has already been done and they've slowly been building up. I'm now using 1 sachet Movicol-half as a maintenance. My son is certainly doing better than my daughter and I think that is because we were able to figure out what was going on sooner for him. ie less damage to muscles etc. When you say your son is leaking, are you using parachoc? That will cause an orange oil type substance to leak as it just flows around the impaction. You can also get "overflow" leakage as some looser stools bypass the mass. Is your son being seen regularly by a doctor and has he had a recent xray? In all cases other conditions such as Hirchsprungs, mild spinabifida etc. need to be ruled out too. I really feel for you having a young baby. I found I got a lot more sympathy from my family now that I have a "cause" in my childrens case. What are the 3 year olds symptoms? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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