By: tigereye670
28/09/2009
1:30 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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Hi Firefly,
i appreciate what you r saying, but i have seen 1st hand these schemes, as an unemployed person who also was hired run a scheme for a local council. I was unemployed on and off due to the last recession occurring just b4 leaving uni. By the time the economy turned I had little experience to show for my age but overqualified for more menial jobs while newer grads were getting the grad jobs. No one wanted to hire me. I was stuck, literally, or so I thought. Then bit the bullet after long soul searching and never looked back. Of course they have their bad points, but also their good points, like any strategy.
In response to your thoughts: :)
1) agree to a degree, thats why they should be paid std pro-rata wages for the day/s they work. Anyone with qualifications but no experience will soon find it better to find their own work, even if part-time, than rely the govt work. Those without qualifications or education will find its not a free ride to a lazy life and be motivated to find better work. Again, income tax should not be imposed on earnings less than $20k at least. Also the dole is a privilege not a right, they need to respect that, but many dont. Seeing its not a cushy ride for them shows them they should not have slacked off at school, their situation is their fault and responsibility, but also shows they have the freedom to do better if they use the help offered. Remember, its not cushy for the workers either yet they work and make many sacrifices in to do so.
2)In the good times this is not an issue, there was more work than workers (supposedly). There is plenty of social works these people can be employed on & gain pride in. Those who dont want to participate should not be rewarded with free dole. They need to understand that it is their choice. They are not victims, they are adults now with the right to choose their path, which however must be earned by them, ie, with rights comes responsibilities. |
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By: tigereye670
24/09/2009
1:52 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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Thanks all for the constructive feedback. :)
If i wasnt so busy org a n i sing my wedding for start of Oct i'd write more. i'm finding org*g aing complex multi-mill $ projects is trivial compared to a wedding full of resource constrainits, political minefields, & ever changing targets & time-lines.. :-O
I'll be back in Nov after a well earned break...
All the best :-D
PS this text character thingy with yahoo is really annoying.... |
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By: firefly_au
21/09/2009
12:30 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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Hi Jay :)
It has been tried before and found to increase the inequities faced by the unemployed and unemployable. The reasons were many but I will point out just a few for you.
(1) The dole is by design nothing more than survival assistance for the unemployed and to expect them to bare the cost of fronting up to work for it only makes it less than survival rations! Aboriginals have a different system with it's own set of problems.
(2) The government can only provide "make work" for them most of the time unless they intend to fire full time government employees to make room for these programs or just plain not put on the staff they really need to to meet the normal workload.
(3) When you force someone to turn up to do "make work" they have no interest in doing the results are always shoddy and not worth the trouble. This results in a further demoralization of the unemployed and the persons supervising them!
(4) The only way that this sort of thing can be productive is when it involves volunteers and a genuine upgrade to their skills and employment prospects in a field the individual is interested in!
In short - setting up viable work for the dole schemes are far more difficult that most believe, but they do have one positive side effect they tend to drive most long term unemployed with any hope for the future back to school. The rest tend to take up a life of crime and drugs!
We need as a nation to rethink this whole welfare system to try to find a better way! Until we do I suspect things will remain much the same as they are now!
BYE :) |
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By: jaymarcel
21/09/2009
7:40 am Yahoo! Profile:
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Your comments about people on the dole could not be more true & your solution is obvious, this would also be a great way of opening opportunities to aboriginals as even if they wanted to work the majority of business owners are not interested in giving them a job even during the employment crisis a couple of years back.
As you say getting paid minumum wage & doing work for the gov has got to be better than being on the dole, for the individual, for the gov & for the tax payer. |
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By: jaymarcel
21/09/2009
7:17 am Yahoo! Profile:
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Hi Tigereye, I've had a chance to read through your entries properly this morning & they make for an interesting read which would be hard for anyone to argue against.
With regards to CEO pay, you are forgetting about team effort here, you are sayin they do a job most are not capable or willing to do but is that relevant when eveeryone in the company plays a part down to the cleaners & there would not be a company without the investors so my arguement to this is just the amount they get when compared to others, especially when they appear to be taking on little responsibility nowadays such as just leaving the company with a bonus payout when it goes down the pan, also justifying their pay rises & bonuses when others in the company are getting laid off as in recent days.
A good CEO should be spreading the wealth a bit more as after all it is a team effort. |
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By: firefly_au
18/09/2009
11:46 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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Hi tigereye :)
WOW - that was quite a good read! You have a rather philosophical world view mate and it is interesting! I am surprised you did not get more flack from other posters for some of your ideas as there are bound to be many who might disagree.
But I guess they are off having too much fun on holidays while the rest of us work!
BYE :) |
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By: firefly_au
18/09/2009
11:15 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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Hi All :)
GDay tigereye I see you had a little run in with one of the copycat troll IDs running around the forum at the moment.
That should be the "FFF is a she" and I hope she is better looking than me otherwise she would have nothing going for in this world. As you have no doubt already noticed brains and courtesy are out of the equation he he :)
By the way the extra "F" is for fake as she is one of the trolls that always turn up around school holidays :)
BYE:) |
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By: tigereye670
18/09/2009
8:05 am Yahoo! Profile:
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Thanks Jay, i'll be on my best beahviour then....;)
no one seems to be biting, maybe my writing skills are worse than i thought. oh well... :) |
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By: jaymarcel
17/09/2009
2:57 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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| Dont get your fireflys mixed up though mate there are two with very different opinions & I reckon the one your talking to is better looking than the other;) |
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By: tigereye670
17/09/2009
1:11 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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| The plethora of new health and safety laws I see in my work and the increasing litigation mindset of society is due in part to people no longer accepting responsibility for their own actions. That is a dangerous road for society to go down. Abstaining from our responsibilities means the govt has to fill the void which becomes is a quick road to totalitarian i s m. Democracy is never assured. History is littered from ancient times of this result. As they say, âthose who ignore the past are doomed to repeat itâ. âThe price of freedom is eternal vigilance.â Knowing the past also allows smart people to anticipate the future, hence why knowledge is power. Examples of risks are safety cameras on the roads, cities, the different types of tracking mechanic s m s that fight crime but open the door to abuse from on high. Most civilisations up to today have fallen in part because of this⦠Remember, almost all economic or political systems you can think of will work well except for one critical flaw. Humans⦠No system can combat human foibles and opportunistic desires. |
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By: tigereye670
17/09/2009
1:09 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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People are unfortunately prone to making judgements from very limited knowledge or experience. I for example took 4 yrs, 7 days a wk, to build my house after hrs, after travelling 200km a day for work as a business analyst, building till 10 or 11 pm only to head off to work at 5.15am in the morning. Yes, I will hopefully make a handsome profit on the house, but what is the cost? No time to socialise or meet with family and friends, sport, exercise, or to just relax after work, not to mention the fatigue and health degradation that only 5 hrs sleep incurs. Whatever reward I get out of this has come at a hefty price that I and those I love have paid. I do not therefore begrudge successful people their wealth because I know what it takes to achieve it, and how easy it is to take the easy way out and simply blame society or the govt for their lot in life.
Ah, but what about people who get something for nothing I hear some ask? Well, is it ever for nothing? If u satisfy the rules of the program then u obviously deserve the $ according to the rules. We may not like it but itâs a fact. Therefore fix the rules or change the system if people are getting what they havent legitimately earnt. Labelling them as greedy is not correct according to the rules.
For eg, instead of the dole, the govt should provide all unemployed with work to the value of the dole. If they reject the job then thatâs fine, no work no pay, thatâs fair to everyone. It builds personal responsibility for their future and self esteem, instils a work ethic, a sense of contributing to society rather than leeching off it, and it would show their many children that laziness is not the pleasant option it is now. Paying the unemployed to breed more unemployed is illogical and dangerous to our children. All the $ should be diverted to those who earnt it in the first place to have babies. Thats not to say the unemployed should be left high n dry. They should be given OPPORTUNITIES to work, to be educated ... |
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By: tigereye670
17/09/2009
12:05 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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Do i think CEOs are worth multi-millions $ salaries? Generally not.
But it depends not on what you or I think, but on what their shareholders think, and the CEOâs benefit to the company, ie, is the shareholder getting value for $. Its the law of supply & demand that sets (apart from dodgy deals) remuneration & rewards people for putting in the effort to work hard & achieve success, not wishy washy unprovable morality & pathetic excuses why others succeed while they themselves are too lazy or gutless to earn more $. It takes many sacrifices to become well off, which is not mentioned in the tabloid headlines or understood by people who are lazy and therefore poor.
It is typical that successful people are asset rich but time poor. They may spend 16+ hrs a day at the office, with no holidays, etc, etc, while the dirt poor get free money from the tax payer and get to relax all day every day watching Oprah, smokin and drinkin, and making babies. It can easily be argued dole bludgers are just as greedy as rich tax dodgers.
Of course we all have our own perceived moral beliefs that we try to stick to, but therein lies that crux that there are 6 or so billion different ideas of what constitutes moral behaviour. All people occasionally but deliberately fail to live up to even their own moral codes when it is expedient to do so. We push out the boundary or make excuses to break a belief. Therefore it is hypocritical for anyone to accuse others of greed; as Jesus supposedly said, anyone without sin may cast the first stone. |
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By: tigereye670
17/09/2009
12:05 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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This is a far more complex subject than what most people appreciate. At most, people can do no more than point out what they consider to be glaring examples of greed, not at what point need becomes greed.
But if you really think about the details rather than about the emotions of "how dare they" then you start to consider that:
1. like it or not, CEOs receive that money because they have done what it takes to be in that position, a position that most people arent capable or willing to do what it takes to get there.
2. of course there is often shenanigans going on at the top, just like shenanigans all the way to the bottom, no level of society is any more moral than the next.
3. if i accept the most common concept of greed, then EVERYONE is greedy but just wont admit it. We all have much more than we need to survive & always more than someone else no matter how poor we think we r. But so what? If u earn it u deserve it, as long as u dont break the law, hurt others or the environment in the process.
People r good at pointing the finger at others because it makes them feel selfrighteous but do not apply their own principles to themselves for fear of what they will find. People expediently push the acceptable limit of wealth a little higher than their own situation so that what have or earn is classed as acceptable and not greedy. It placates their conscience...How very convenient indeed. |
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By: tigereye670
16/09/2009
12:43 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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| Oops, FF is a she, appologies. |
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By: tigereye670
16/09/2009
12:42 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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You r so correct Jay,
Of course everyone can & should have their own opinion. I dont mind at all people disagreeing with me. I see it as an opportunity to learn from others.
Unfortunately FF doesnt have the intelligence or wisdom required to debate the topic, or courtesy/respect for those he disagrees with. But thats his problem to deal withâ¦
Bear in mind that in an attempt to keep things very very brief the risk rises significantly of people misunderstanding what we are all trying to say⦠Go CATS!! ;) |
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By: jaymarcel
16/09/2009
7:27 am Yahoo! Profile:
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| tigereye looks like you have the fake fire.fly on your tail, you have to watch this one she bites & has rabies. |
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By: fire.fly_au
16/09/2009
7:01 am |
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By: jaymarcel
16/09/2009
6:50 am Yahoo! Profile:
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Hi tigereye, my belief is quite close to yours, I do believe in god but follow no particular religion.
But going on experience good things happen to good people, so I will leave on that note to enjoy my wonderful life & await the trolls return. |
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By: tigereye670
15/09/2009
1:51 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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Logic dictates God is perfect hence that implies many things that contradict many religious beliefs.
What is god?
Look in the mirror and u will see god, look at your neighbours, trees, the stars, dirt, the mirror, etc. Logic dictates that god is perfect, omnipresent, omniscient, the be all and end all, not 99.9% but 100%, he must therefore BE everything, and therefore creates everything from himself not from thin air. There is therefore nothing that is not god. We are not godâs supplicants or play things or even children. We are god! What we call life may well be one of many dreamed up universes of god (maybe to keep himself occupied? ;). Science has found 9 (I think) other dimensions so far. Theory suggests there are infinite dimensions.
Here endeth my wacky lesson, lol, at least as I see itâ¦. ;) cheers all and I hope I u can follow my logic â¦. |
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By: tigereye670
15/09/2009
1:51 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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Hence this is why the religions of the world are only guidelines to more effective behaviour rather than the claimed god-gifted morality. The bible originated from the Sumerian culture, not Semitic, which immediately brings into question the bibleâs true authenticity. And it morphed from the need to control increasingly large and disperse populations beyond what the authority of the many Kings could achieve. Religion was effective to a degree for reducing excessive and destructive population behaviour, but also became a tool for the ruling or priestly class to acquire land and wealth, as it does today. I believe in god btw, but from logic, science and knowledge based perspectives rather than wishful thinking by people conned into thinking god punishes the wicked and rewards the pious. Clue #1, the claimed traits of god (revenge, punishment, justice, implied mistakes, etc) are suspiciously those of humans and some animals. Humans have defined god with our traits to suit our political aims. Humans make mistakes; god does not and hence did not mistakenly create the devil to harass humans. God does not get angry and punish people for being exactly how he created/programmed them in the 1st place. Therefore people do not make mistakes, but rather do what they were genetically and experientially programmed to do, like software. A program operates exactly as its code was constructed, without exception.
Logic dictates God is perfect hence that implies many things that contradict many religious beliefs. |
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By: tigereye670
15/09/2009
1:22 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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I donât mean to be pedantic but Greed is neither good nor bad. Greed is merely an adjective and so does not exist. It is a personal belief and so cannot be proven. Same with any adjective. Good, evil, fat, thin, tall, short, up, down, etc. These adjectives do not exist except when used in a COMPARISON to something else. I think of this b4 I get angry with someone hence why it is rare 4 me to do so (except in traffic).;)
At what point does a shade of red become dark red. It is an infinite scale and so there is NO measurable point. Colours and even lengths cannot be measured with 100% accuracy, and never will. 1cm for eg cannot be measured down to the sub-atomic level and heyond.
Hence I suggest no one is CAPABLE to specify what EXACTLY constitutes greed or charity. Only god if he exists can potentially do so. |
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By: tigereye670
15/09/2009
12:33 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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rodneysaviour2, etc, etc,
you obviously dont have an economics education or investing experience with limited logic.
If you wait till you earn & save 100% of the cost of a house then most people will not succeed, the average income is not sufficient for this strategy. The asset price/value increases at a faster pace than what most people will save. Successful investors borrow to access the leverage effect. Borrow $500k & a 10% rise in value is $50k. Subtract interest of 5-8%, which is tax deductable & add rent income. Add How long will it take the av person to save $500k plus pay rent, get real!! |
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By: fire.fly_au
12/09/2009
9:28 pm |
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By: tommyknockersbegone
19/08/2009
1:14 am |
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By: jaymarcel
18/08/2009
3:51 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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I know of many Australians in their 50's who are still renting & have to find nearly $2000 per month just to pay the rent, & own nothing of value.
They can't afford to have a holiday or stop working & still commit 5 days a week at work yet are not any better off than when they were in their 20's.
Wake up get your own house! |
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