By: ang101000
17/10/2009
1:55 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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Menta,
I feel that my one liners don't express the seriousness of the USA economic problem. So when you have the time (away from surfing) and you start to believe that you are wrong and everybody else is right (ie. the current system does work and it is sustainable in long term) have a look at this movie:
IOUSA, One nation. Under stress. In debt.
http://www.iousathemovie.com/ |
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By: ang101000
17/10/2009
12:32 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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Menta,
'Such a rapid return to highly leveraged market speculation, which is precisely what attributed to the initial GFC, is what will lead to the next even more damaging GFC.'
As long as we (society) measure growth the way we (ie market economics)do, don't expect change in the system.
'Yet Wall Street celebrates as Main Street suffers. Such disconnect is simply unsustainable.'
My point really. |
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By: mentawaisurf
17/10/2009
9:08 am Yahoo! Profile:
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What has Wall Street learnt from the GFC? Not much apparently. Goldman Sachs just reported a $3.19 billion net profit which no doubt was celebrated by all at GS because it means a return to the fat bonuses that they've grown accustomed to over the last decade or more of incentive fuelled risk taking. But the result was due to strong trading profits on the back of borrowing from the Fed at near 0% and leveraging into a major bear-market rally. Little revenue was actually made from sustainable investment banking services. Such a rapid return to highly leveraged market speculation, which is precisely what attributed to the initial GFC, is what will lead to the next even more damaging GFC.
Meanwhile, despite unprecedented bailouts, government guarantees and stimulus and central bank monetary expansion, banks bad and doubtful debts continue to rise, foreclosures are still at record levels while CRE loan write-downs and pending defaults are yet to be addressed. Yet Wall Street celebrates as Main Street suffers. Such disconnect is simply unsustainable. Wall Street will plunge into Fall Street - yet again. Only this time they won't get such a rapid taxpayer rescue. |
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By: jaymarcel
12/10/2009
1:12 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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| Menta, the share holders are to blame for these fat cat pay rises, yet they are the ones that lost the most. |
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By: guy.longshank1
12/10/2009
12:29 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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ECONOMIC DISASTER LOOMS!!!
We are not going to be able to avoid this worldwide economic disaster for much longer.. Just look around. All of the major economies of the world are depressed and showing little if any sign of real recovery from the disaterous economic downturn of last year.
The P.R. of China for example continues to poor billions of Yuan into its own economy in order to support it and give the impression that there is indeed less of an economic downturn than we all know there to be.
Lies! Lies & more lies...
Here at home we see the clear signs of trouble on the horizon.. UNABLE to support itself, the government announces yet another stimulus effort to prop up the failed economy which trade in itself is as yet unable to sustain...
"The Federal Government has announced it will invest up to an extra $8 billion in residential new mortgage-backed securities to support competition in the home-lending market. "
Described below by the TROLL as good news, this is indeed nothing less than a blatant attempt by government to convince people to invest at a time when infact it is extremely dangerous to do so.
As steve_b_wilson clearly wrote on his BLOG on these same Yahoo Finance pages, (AUSTRALIA - ECONOMIC DISASTER LOOMS) the irresponsible actions of government resulting in the continued waste of tax payers money, (OUR money) is in itself alarming.
AUTRALIA - ECONOMIC DISASTER LOOMS!
Join with steve_b_wilson and I and many others to do what can be done to alert the populace to the perils of believing in RECOVERY when in fact, the recovery we all dream of and wish for is nothing more than that at present..
A DREAM..
As steve_b_wilson quite rightly encourages - ACT to secure your financial future and protect yourselves from the inevitable economic disaster which shall occur in 2010 lest the major world economies recover significantly. |
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By: guy.longshank1
9/10/2009
4:08 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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As interest rates rise, the same fat cats who's GREED caused all this economic turmoil in the first place shall once again be in a position to do the same all over again.
Who'll suffer most... again?
Not them! |
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By: mentawaisurf
30/09/2009
11:19 am Yahoo! Profile:
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Greed is relative.
Australian fat cats given 6 percent pay rise amid crisis;
http://money.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=868786 |
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By: jaymarcel
30/09/2009
7:18 am Yahoo! Profile:
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| That's kinda my point, unless you put your money into a fixed term deposit with the bank or into a bank account you really have no one to blame but yourself for your investments. |
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By: lasty49
29/09/2009
2:39 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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Menta,
The question remains if the markets never experienced the downturn those who are crying poor,Storm fin clients,Madoffs clients,Lehman investors to name a few wouldnt be whimpering today.
Most knew the risks and are now looking for the blame game.
Bankers who took risks did so because their shareholders wanted better returns.
I didnt hear any yelling "stop earning 20pct per annum on my money" Did you?
Hindsight is a wonderful thing but with it comes the told you so's or would have could haves.
There is no doubt that many of these hiccups in our financial world will occur.The greed factor will never go away. |
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By: mentawaisurf
29/09/2009
1:12 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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Individuals are always free to make their own informed decisions and to live with the consequences. But when bankers are permitted to cut up and sell off high-risk assets packaged and marketed as safe investments (by ratings agencies who are paid by the very people they are supposedly rating) and as such spread their toxic assets throughout the world to the degree that it makes the global fiancial system systemically volatile to market corrections and risks bringing down the whole system and these bankers are largely unregulated and when they fail they demand a tax payer bailout so they can continue their financial engineering of exotic instruments (WMDs) so they can off-load them to unsuspecting buyers around the world just so they can continue to generate huge short-term bonuses with no regard for their clients or the effects to society - then something needs to be done.
And yet we have learnt nothing from the initial phase of the GFC (as the window dressing by the G20 has shown). In fact, it's like it never even happened. And that is why the GFC II will be so much more intense because until we finally do learn the lessons of our mistakes, the lessons will keep getting harder. Failure to learn from our mistakes always ends in failure. |
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By: jaymarcel
29/09/2009
7:14 am Yahoo! Profile:
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Are there any lessons to be learnt, don't we live in a democratic society where as long as your not breaking the law it is up to the individual who they risk giving their hard earned money to for investment or whether to invest in shares or houses & how much to put into super.
It's the individual who chooses to take out a big mortgage or borrow from the bank to start a business.
It all comes down to an individuals way of working out risk whether investing or borrowing, rather than trying to look for individuals to blame or reasons for what some are calling a failure in the financial system we should take responsibility only for our own choices.
I do not invest in super or shares but only houses/land & if the market collapses tomorrow I will not be pointing any fingers.
The bank has never knocked on my door offering money or forcing me to borrow to buy a house, I have made my own choice to see them. I don't recall anyone knocking on my door trying to sell me shares either & we can all manage our own super.
Greed is good laziness is bad. |
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By: mentawaisurf
28/09/2009
2:55 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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President Obama, speaking recently on the anniversary of the collapse of Lehman Brothers, accused Wall Street executives of returning to "the reckless behavior and unchecked excess that was at the heart of this crisis".
So what have we learned? Just last September the world was staring into the abyss. Yet we've emerged with banks even bigger than when they were supposedly too big to fail. Our own big-four have a stranglehold over the mortgage market (which would lead to their downfall if our housing market was to have an overdue correction). There's been growing resistance against reform from the finance sector with their powerful and influential lobby groups. They are building a case for returning to their same old rotten ways.
Let's not forget that global banks were given significant freedoms and they abused them by using the cheap and ample liquidity provided by panicky central banks to generate quick profits and huge bonuses. Yet the risks remain. Banks still have hundreds of billions of toxic assets that cannot be valued. Mortgages are still defaulting with the next wave of Alt-A, ARMs and even prime mortgages yet to come coupled with growing concerns about commercial real estate loans and consumer credit.
Still banks continue to ignore risk because they believe now is the time to capture market share and even if they were to collapse they think government would bail them out too (after the post-Lehman debacle).
Obama's proposals for stronger regulation of Wall Street have stalled in Congress. Wall Street has been spending hundreds of millions doing everything it can to kill regulation so now Congress is merely asking them to be nicer people. That's like tossing a wounded seal into a school of great white sharks and hoping they'll nurse it back to health!
The risks today are even greater than they were pre-subprime. The lessons we should have learned have been lost. So now, regrettably, we all must learn the hard way. |
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By: tigereye670
28/09/2009
1:35 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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4) more or less agree here. :) The system can definitely be improved, but the concept is valid in my opinion AND Experience. Some will drop out and turn to crime and that is their choice to make. They will then suffer the consequences of their actions if the courts do their job, but thatâs another issue. I realise that many of these people have psychological or other issues that leads them to crime or self harm. The system must therefore devote much more resources to the diversion programs that seem to work well and save the community much more $ than it costs. A win-win all round.
Overall, the issues need to be prevented in the 1st place by parents doing their job rather than abrogating it to the schools, or just not caring. The baby bonus is therefore making this situation worse. It should only be paid to employed people who may need help while working rather than doleies who need 2k for a fix. Breaking the leeching mentality is crucial.
cheers all. :) |
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By: tigereye670
28/09/2009
1:34 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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3)Many if not most people dont like their work, but still show up. Dole recipients must learn to simply suck it up & deal with it. If their work is shoddy then they will be warned as per current employment legislation, receive training if necessary, & if they still dont play ball, then they should be fired with no dole. Problem is that these people have grown up with poor role models starting with their parents, then their looser friends, etc. That lifestyle must be broken if that recipient is to ever break out of the dole handout mentality. This will then help their children to avoid falling into the same poor life mentality of LEECHING & LOVING IT. The children will see their parents working rather than bludging. I would love to stay at home and relax, watch TV, play games, go hiking, whatever, but that costs $ that someone has to earn it and pay tax. Recipients need to truly understand that. It likely means they likely need not only work but also life skills and philosophical education, rather than just technical education. To understand why self respect does not come from leeching. Free $ is a slow soul destroyer even though it seems fun to many. Basically they need to gain wisdom, and this should be taught by parents and schools rather than just plain facts. Society swings from conservative to liberal, and both have their pros n cons. In liberal times people have more freedom but become slack, and visa versa, etc. Hence parents often try to be friends rather than parents and forget their true role of training their child to develop the wisdom to chart their own course in life rather than a slack course in life. (apologies for the side topics introduced hereâ¦)
Of course those who genuinely look for work must be helped in any way possible. There is nothing wrong with being unemployed or on the dole as long as the focus is to get back to work. |
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By: tigereye670
28/09/2009
1:30 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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Hi Firefly,
i appreciate what you r saying, but i have seen 1st hand these schemes, as an unemployed person who also was hired run a scheme for a local council. I was unemployed on and off due to the last recession occurring just b4 leaving uni. By the time the economy turned I had little experience to show for my age but overqualified for more menial jobs while newer grads were getting the grad jobs. No one wanted to hire me. I was stuck, literally, or so I thought. Then bit the bullet after long soul searching and never looked back. Of course they have their bad points, but also their good points, like any strategy.
In response to your thoughts: :)
1) agree to a degree, thats why they should be paid std pro-rata wages for the day/s they work. Anyone with qualifications but no experience will soon find it better to find their own work, even if part-time, than rely the govt work. Those without qualifications or education will find its not a free ride to a lazy life and be motivated to find better work. Again, income tax should not be imposed on earnings less than $20k at least. Also the dole is a privilege not a right, they need to respect that, but many dont. Seeing its not a cushy ride for them shows them they should not have slacked off at school, their situation is their fault and responsibility, but also shows they have the freedom to do better if they use the help offered. Remember, its not cushy for the workers either yet they work and make many sacrifices in to do so.
2)In the good times this is not an issue, there was more work than workers (supposedly). There is plenty of social works these people can be employed on & gain pride in. Those who dont want to participate should not be rewarded with free dole. They need to understand that it is their choice. They are not victims, they are adults now with the right to choose their path, which however must be earned by them, ie, with rights comes responsibilities. |
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By: tigereye670
24/09/2009
1:52 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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Thanks all for the constructive feedback. :)
If i wasnt so busy org a n i sing my wedding for start of Oct i'd write more. i'm finding org*g aing complex multi-mill $ projects is trivial compared to a wedding full of resource constrainits, political minefields, & ever changing targets & time-lines.. :-O
I'll be back in Nov after a well earned break...
All the best :-D
PS this text character thingy with yahoo is really annoying.... |
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By: firefly_au
21/09/2009
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Hi Jay :)
It has been tried before and found to increase the inequities faced by the unemployed and unemployable. The reasons were many but I will point out just a few for you.
(1) The dole is by design nothing more than survival assistance for the unemployed and to expect them to bare the cost of fronting up to work for it only makes it less than survival rations! Aboriginals have a different system with it's own set of problems.
(2) The government can only provide "make work" for them most of the time unless they intend to fire full time government employees to make room for these programs or just plain not put on the staff they really need to to meet the normal workload.
(3) When you force someone to turn up to do "make work" they have no interest in doing the results are always shoddy and not worth the trouble. This results in a further demoralization of the unemployed and the persons supervising them!
(4) The only way that this sort of thing can be productive is when it involves volunteers and a genuine upgrade to their skills and employment prospects in a field the individual is interested in!
In short - setting up viable work for the dole schemes are far more difficult that most believe, but they do have one positive side effect they tend to drive most long term unemployed with any hope for the future back to school. The rest tend to take up a life of crime and drugs!
We need as a nation to rethink this whole welfare system to try to find a better way! Until we do I suspect things will remain much the same as they are now!
BYE :) |
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By: jaymarcel
21/09/2009
7:40 am Yahoo! Profile:
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Your comments about people on the dole could not be more true & your solution is obvious, this would also be a great way of opening opportunities to aboriginals as even if they wanted to work the majority of business owners are not interested in giving them a job even during the employment crisis a couple of years back.
As you say getting paid minumum wage & doing work for the gov has got to be better than being on the dole, for the individual, for the gov & for the tax payer. |
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By: jaymarcel
21/09/2009
7:17 am Yahoo! Profile:
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Hi Tigereye, I've had a chance to read through your entries properly this morning & they make for an interesting read which would be hard for anyone to argue against.
With regards to CEO pay, you are forgetting about team effort here, you are sayin they do a job most are not capable or willing to do but is that relevant when eveeryone in the company plays a part down to the cleaners & there would not be a company without the investors so my arguement to this is just the amount they get when compared to others, especially when they appear to be taking on little responsibility nowadays such as just leaving the company with a bonus payout when it goes down the pan, also justifying their pay rises & bonuses when others in the company are getting laid off as in recent days.
A good CEO should be spreading the wealth a bit more as after all it is a team effort. |
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By: firefly_au
18/09/2009
11:46 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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Hi tigereye :)
WOW - that was quite a good read! You have a rather philosophical world view mate and it is interesting! I am surprised you did not get more flack from other posters for some of your ideas as there are bound to be many who might disagree.
But I guess they are off having too much fun on holidays while the rest of us work!
BYE :) |
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By: firefly_au
18/09/2009
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Hi All :)
GDay tigereye I see you had a little run in with one of the copycat troll IDs running around the forum at the moment.
That should be the "FFF is a she" and I hope she is better looking than me otherwise she would have nothing going for in this world. As you have no doubt already noticed brains and courtesy are out of the equation he he :)
By the way the extra "F" is for fake as she is one of the trolls that always turn up around school holidays :)
BYE:) |
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By: tigereye670
18/09/2009
8:05 am Yahoo! Profile:
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Thanks Jay, i'll be on my best beahviour then....;)
no one seems to be biting, maybe my writing skills are worse than i thought. oh well... :) |
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By: jaymarcel
17/09/2009
2:57 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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| Dont get your fireflys mixed up though mate there are two with very different opinions & I reckon the one your talking to is better looking than the other;) |
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By: tigereye670
17/09/2009
1:11 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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| The plethora of new health and safety laws I see in my work and the increasing litigation mindset of society is due in part to people no longer accepting responsibility for their own actions. That is a dangerous road for society to go down. Abstaining from our responsibilities means the govt has to fill the void which becomes is a quick road to totalitarian i s m. Democracy is never assured. History is littered from ancient times of this result. As they say, âthose who ignore the past are doomed to repeat itâ. âThe price of freedom is eternal vigilance.â Knowing the past also allows smart people to anticipate the future, hence why knowledge is power. Examples of risks are safety cameras on the roads, cities, the different types of tracking mechanic s m s that fight crime but open the door to abuse from on high. Most civilisations up to today have fallen in part because of this⦠Remember, almost all economic or political systems you can think of will work well except for one critical flaw. Humans⦠No system can combat human foibles and opportunistic desires. |
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By: tigereye670
17/09/2009
1:09 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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People are unfortunately prone to making judgements from very limited knowledge or experience. I for example took 4 yrs, 7 days a wk, to build my house after hrs, after travelling 200km a day for work as a business analyst, building till 10 or 11 pm only to head off to work at 5.15am in the morning. Yes, I will hopefully make a handsome profit on the house, but what is the cost? No time to socialise or meet with family and friends, sport, exercise, or to just relax after work, not to mention the fatigue and health degradation that only 5 hrs sleep incurs. Whatever reward I get out of this has come at a hefty price that I and those I love have paid. I do not therefore begrudge successful people their wealth because I know what it takes to achieve it, and how easy it is to take the easy way out and simply blame society or the govt for their lot in life.
Ah, but what about people who get something for nothing I hear some ask? Well, is it ever for nothing? If u satisfy the rules of the program then u obviously deserve the $ according to the rules. We may not like it but itâs a fact. Therefore fix the rules or change the system if people are getting what they havent legitimately earnt. Labelling them as greedy is not correct according to the rules.
For eg, instead of the dole, the govt should provide all unemployed with work to the value of the dole. If they reject the job then thatâs fine, no work no pay, thatâs fair to everyone. It builds personal responsibility for their future and self esteem, instils a work ethic, a sense of contributing to society rather than leeching off it, and it would show their many children that laziness is not the pleasant option it is now. Paying the unemployed to breed more unemployed is illogical and dangerous to our children. All the $ should be diverted to those who earnt it in the first place to have babies. Thats not to say the unemployed should be left high n dry. They should be given OPPORTUNITIES to work, to be educated ... |
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